Infared fleece heating

[saveasteading]

I have seen IR used very successfully in factories, above work stations , heating  static worker. Also in garden centres over the tills. The power is quite high but justifiable rather than any other means.

 

I've got a couple of black heaters on an outside wall for heating us on the patio when an evening meal turns a bit chilly for the coffee and another wine. 

It seemed a great idea at the time, and I was experimenting for professional purposes. But the power use is high, and we would better put on a jumper and hat.

 

And I've got a cheap heater that works with a visibly hot element and light that also emits IR.  Described as Halogen AND IR. I use that as it is directional, when watching rugby but banished to a cold room. That, with blanket,  works and is a decent compromise for 2 hours.

 

Heating the walls and ceiling is a waste of heat. I can't see the advantage of that at all.  I expect the heat loss outwards is also significant.

[JamesPa]

16 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

I have seen IR used very successfully in factories, above work stations , heating  static worker. Also in garden centres over the tills. The power is quite high but justifiable rather than any other means.

 

I've got a couple of black heaters on an outside wall for heating us on the patio when an evening meal turns a bit chilly for the coffee and another wine. 

It seemed a great idea at the time, and I was experimenting for professional purposes. But the power use is high, and we would better put on a jumper and hat.

 

And I've got a cheap heater that works with a visibly hot element and light that also emits IR.  Described as Halogen AND IR. I use that as it is directional, when watching rugby but banished to a cold room. That, with blanket,  works and is a decent compromise for 2 hours.

 

Heating the walls and ceiling is a waste of heat. I can't see the advantage of that at all.  I expect the heat loss outwards is also significant.

Absolutely to all of that, but a very different scenario (as I think you are suggesting) than a typical domestic one that the system described seems to be aiming at, ie an alternative way to do universal rather than very localised heating.

 

Now if the ir panels were localised, directional, and followed people as they moved around so each person has their individual sunbeam, the scheme might just have legs.  But then it wouldn't be cheap to install.  Heated clothing is probably more viable.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1 by JamesPa

[SteamyTea]

25 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

Fundamentally (as you have now positioned it) it's resistance electric, end of.

But it does not use 'far' resistance electric.

 

12 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

have seen IR used very successfully in factories, above work stations , heating  static worker. Also in garden centres over the tills. The power is quite high but justifiable rather than any other means

By law, workplaces need to be at the palindromic temperature 61°F or 16°C in Roman Catholic.

15 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

experimenting for professional purposes

 

15 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

visibly hot element

Try running at so it is not visible.

16 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Heating the walls and ceiling is a waste of heat.

Most will miss the target as well i.e. heat the whole wall or ceiling (10s if m²) so the radiative levels are a little above ambient levels, to warm up less that a m² of clothed person.

 

Also worth remembering that radiation levels fall off rapidly with distance (inverse square law). That never gets mentioned in the sales brochure, or the emitter temperature.

[SteamyTea]

9 minutes ago, JamesPa said:

Heated clothing is probably more viable.

Just been chatting to someone that told me about a Scotch Lass that had invented a sleeping bag/backpack that incorporated solar panels to warm the sleeping bag before use.

Apparently it is aimed at homeless people.

Pointed out that homeless people tend to sit in the shadows most of the day, a few fraction of a metre square will not produce much energy anyway, and that a soggy sleeping bag takes a lot more energy to warm up.

I suggest a cheap (less that 20 quid) airbed would keep them warmer at night.

 

[ReedRichards]

On 01/08/2025 at 09:28, Galvin1972 said:

Haha, I love the imagination but just to put your mind at ease, turning a room into a microwave isn’t quite the way to go! That said, you’re actually not far off from how far infrared heating works (safely, of course!). With TUV Certification (TÜV (short for Technischer Überwachungsverein, which means “Technical Inspection Association” in German) refers to a group of independent German organisations that test and certify products for safety, quality and compliance with international standards.) 

 

Far infrared doesn’t use microwaves — it emits a gentle, natural wavelength of heat (similar to the sun’s warmth) that heats people and objects directly, not the air. It’s totally safe and incredibly efficient. No radiation risks, no zapping and definitely no cooked humans involved. 😄

 

We’ve installed this type of heating in over 3,000 buildings so far with plastered in infrared heating — including hospitals, care homes, schools and homes across the UK and can proudly report: not a single sandwich has spoiled, no hamsters have been harmed and all pot plants are still standing.
 

So yes warming people directly without overheating the air or environment is absolutely possible. You just don’t need to turn your living room into a science experiment to do it.

 

The inverse square law gets you.  Radiation, infrared or otherwise, radiates out from the source.  If 500 W of heat hits you when you stand 1 metre away from the source you will get 125 W at 2 metres away, 55 W at 3 metres etc.  This actually applies to a small source like a light bulb, a panel heater won't be quite as bad, but the fatal flaw with the type of product @Galvin1972 is plugging so hard is that you have to locate yourself close to the heater if you want it to heat you and not just other objects in the room.    

[Nickfromwales]

@Galvin1972 is trying way too hard here, and Mr-a-certain-Mcloud is not quite as much of an expert in anything as he is a TV waffler, let's be honest eh? Also prob thrives on getting stuff for feck all so not so worried if the plan fails; and the companies enjoy the NDA!

 

IR panel heating is utter shart and expensive as feck to run, and would be the absolute last thing I'd ever consider for space/central heating. Mention the <90^oC surface temp if the thing has to be turned up to output it's max stated wattage, and then people with pets, kids or infirm just say WTF?? Not just shart and expensive to run, but dangerous too.

 

It's akin to when some brainwashed people knock my door to convince me that a man with a beard rides a cloud in the sky and watches over his flock.....for flocks sake.....

 

That is how this sales pitch comes across, embarrassingly desperate for approval, so time to relegate it to the fiction section and move on to something worthwhile.

[Galvin1972]

On 02/08/2025 at 23:46, Nickfromwales said:

@Galvin1972 is trying way too hard here, and Mr-a-certain-Mcloud is not quite as much of an expert in anything as he is a TV waffler, let's be honest eh? Also prob thrives on getting stuff for feck all so not so worried if the plan fails; and the companies enjoy the NDA!

 

IR panel heating is utter shart and expensive as feck to run, and would be the absolute last thing I'd ever consider for space/central heating. Mention the <90^oC surface temp if the thing has to be turned up to output it's max stated wattage, and then people with pets, kids or infirm just say WTF?? Not just shart and expensive to run, but dangerous too.

 

It's akin to when some brainwashed people knock my door to convince me that a man with a beard rides a cloud in the sky and watches over his flock.....for flocks sake.....

 

That is how this sales pitch comes across, embarrassingly desperate for approval, so time to relegate it to the fiction section and move on to something worthwhile.

Thank you for your input Nicky - We are coming to South Wales soon perhaps you can come and experience the heating once we have completed the installation - Our heating film gets to a max temp of 40 Deg C. KM paid full price for his heating ... Anyhoooww

[saveasteading]

24 minutes ago, Galvin1972 said:

experience the heating once we have completed the installation

Nobody here doubts that it makes heat.

It is the cost of installation and running costs that are of interest and the general view is that this is like Warmup electric matting. ie expensive to run and not for justifiable space heating. 

Got any costs you can publish?

[JamesPa]

4 hours ago, saveasteading said:

Got any costs you can publish?

I would ask for a simple explanation of what is and what isn't heated and how your system differentiates and thus delivers warm people more efficiently than another system.  

 

For example a microwave oven works because it generated radiation at the resonant frequency of water molecules, this preferentially exciting them.  Organic matter has a high water content so is differentially heated.

 

Something like this is what we need.

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, JamesPa said:

For example a microwave oven works because it generated radiation at the resonant frequency of water molecules

That's what I always thought, but now started heating dinner plates in the microwave - 3 mins and 2 large plates and piping hot. Nothing in the microwave other than the plates.

 

The other one is microwave heats from the inside out, which again is rubbish.

[JohnMo]

Would think ceiling mounted IR heating is nothing really different to UFH.

 

UFH you can run cooler room temperature than small radiator systems and it's not about heating the body, but slowing down the heat loss from the body, so a perceived heating i.e. your not getting colder. In that it heats the building fabric and the temperature difference. A low temperature UFH has a surface temperature 1 to 3 degs warmer than room, so to 21 to 24. Which obviously enough to keep you from cooling down.

 

When you dig into Passivhaus and reasons for different rules they are all geared around not feeling cold, 0.6 U value for windows is to do with sitting next to window and the surface of the glass not being x degs lower than room temp when its cold outside. So you feel the perception of cold and the heat being drawn to quickly from the body.

 

IR heating is just the same but at full price electric. Removing heat pumps because they are expensive to run and replacing with IR is mad. Either a piss poor install, rubbish operation or a combination of both. Better money would be spent fixing the issues, possibly locking or removing all the controls.

[JamesPa]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

That's what I always thought, but now started heating dinner plates in the microwave - 3 mins and 2 large plates and piping hot. Nothing in the microwave other than the plates

The radiation is still absorbed by other materials, but less so.  The point is, at least in my understanding, that water is preferentially heated.  Actually I think it might be the o-h bond so fats also absorb preferentially.

[JamesPa]

2 hours ago, JohnMo said:

Removing heat pumps because they are expensive to run and replacing with IR is mad. 

Not only that but the fact someone chooses to is no recommendation.  They managed to choose a piss poor ashp system, so obviously their procurement/contract management processes/understanding of heating are piss poor.  I wouldn't rate a recommendation from someone who evidently makes poor decisions!

[andyscotland]

9 hours ago, JohnMo said:

That's what I always thought, but now started heating dinner plates in the microwave - 3 mins and 2 large plates and piping hot. Nothing in the microwave other than the plates.

 

We have some plates & bowls that get extremely hot in the microwave. Not a scientist, but I suspect either there is some water molecules trapped in the ceramic that weren't removed when the clay was fired, or there's some sort of metallic particles in the ceramic or the glaze that are reacting to the electromagnetic field.