Another year, another family project.....looking likely anyway.

It's a steel barn this time. More will follow of course: we will share the journey.

 

We'd like to set up a project  bank account that all four family members could access  with each having a payment card and online access.

One will be the "accountant".

This would make cost control easier, followed by easier accounting at vat reclaim stage.

We've found that the best prices, by a distance, are obtained by immediate payment rsther than credit accounts.

 

I've heard that some banks don't like the idea because it looks like a business. I don't understand that though.

 

Experiences and suggestions would be very welcome.

 

4 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Experiences and suggestions would be very welcome.

Paypal with shared details.

 

 

How easy is it to set up online banking on several different suitable phones?

 

54 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

... project  bank account that all four family members could access ...This would make cost control easier, ... 

 

Four of our family members on the same high-stakes project leads to: 

> 8 opinions > passive aggression >  frank discussions > further passive aggression >  "Well you flippin-well sort it then " > yet more passive aggression.

Family and high-stakes project, leads to a lack of professional distance. And poor decision making. Or at least it does in our case. Maybe we are a family of One-Person-Bands.

 

I sincerely hope that doesn't happen to you. 

3 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

poor decision making

I can see that.

"I just thought I'd buy this bargain jcb..."

If the team is in the habit of talking to everyone else , then there's less risk. But we've had lots of "What'dja do that for ?" moments. One member finds it difficult to  answer a WhatsApp message - let alone send one. And when he does, he's incapable of reading the whole message thread before asking the same question a third time.

It causes so much work duplication and unexpected stress. 

 

If in the family team there's a matriarch or patriarch who rules the roost, then - less stress. 

(This didn't happen on our current build I hasten to add) 

 

=======================================

PS Debbie has a good phrase about that sort of thing ;

Men, will they ever use their eyes to look for stuff ? - Since birth, he's looked for everything  with his mouth and continues to do so.

Edited December 26, 20232 yr by ToughButterCup

4 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

If in the family team there's a matriarch or patriarch who rules the roost, then - less stress. 

And some.....my wife and I ran a Construction business for 3 decades, and the daughter now runs it. 

so teamwork and management  is ok.

I think we will even have some formal reviews form time to time.

 

We've had a chat about your advice, on the way to the pub.

Perhaps matriarch has total control of the purchasing.....except for the odd bags of cement and boxes of nails etc which can go on a project debit card.

 

Any thoughts on having a distinct bank account , and who with?

we have a project credit card with a large limit, linked by DD to a shared bank account.

All purchases are 'cash' as in we pay at delivery, I've found this much easier to know what is left in the kitty.

The funds are in a Zopa account - fairly high interest but 30 days notice, premium bonds x 2, as in pretty much instant acces, I think it takes 3 days and a cash ISA

 

5 hours ago, saveasteading said:

We've found that the best prices, by a distance, are obtained by immediate payment rsther than credit accounts.

I wouldn’t want to give up the protection offered by the consumer credit act. Why not just open a credit card account in one person’s name and get extra cards issued for the others?

The consumer protection cover is only for the primary card holder not the additional card holders. This very rarely gets mentioned. You would need to rove the additional card holder purchased the item for the benefit of the main cardholder. 
 

34 minutes ago, Susie said:

The consumer protection cover is only for the primary card holder not the additional card holders. This very rarely gets mentioned. You would need to rove the additional card holder purchased the item for the benefit of the main cardholder. 
 

Technically you may be right (I’ve not been able to find a statutory reference, but the which article on s75 protection seems to agree with what you are saying). That said, I’ve never seen a credit company take issue with this. My wife has a card on my account and only a couple of months had to make a claim after she bought some teak garden furniture online which was too good to be true - it was a scam. The card company (Amex) took no issue with her being my agent for the purposes of the contract.

 

 The OP could easily get around any technical issue but the four cardholders entering into an agreement with each other to confirm that all purchases on the card would be made with authority of, and for the benefit of, the main account holder.

Edited December 26, 20232 yr by Adsibob

17 hours ago, saveasteading said:

....

Perhaps matriarch has total control of the purchasing

.....

All is well. 

 

"And you can buy that bag of (..) out of your own pocket money. And I want the damn receipt this week  not next year Okay?"

 

Everyone needs a Whirling Dervish in their life. A tame one right enough, but a Devilish eye for detail. And the moral authority to be known as Firm-But-Fair.

 

"Ya can't get one over on her ...." 

>>> I've heard that some banks don't like the idea because it looks like a business. I don't understand that though.

 

I think that’s because there are distinct sets of rules and banking features for business vs. consumers. The £85K protection for consumers, know-your-customer & director business money laundering rules, payment sign-off and approval features, higher payment limits etc. So, they don’t want any ‘disguised’  businesses.

 

I plan to set up a new account for the build too and pipe it into Xero for accounts. I suspect, for VAT & CIL reasons that it’s important that the account has the same name as the self-builders / owners / CIL exemption applicants.

On 26/12/2023 at 16:32, LSB said:

The funds are in a Zopa account

Interesting. Zopa appears to pay about 4.5% interest, also the funds can be in various 'pockets' with differing interest rates and withdrawal notice periods.  Very clever.

 

I've contacted them to check that our model works for them (4 account holders , construction project) , but have just had a negative reply.

"With us only one person can be the account holder and we do not accept joint accounts."

 

But maybe that can be made to work, by passing on access codes to view the account.

 

 

7 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

pipe it into Xero for accounts

That's surprisingly expensive at £15/month for the basic level. I'd expect them to have a free, or cheaper, entry level, hoping for upgrades later.

24 months at £15 isn't much in the scheme of things.  But every cost has to be watched.

 

We're already using an accounts package that was recommended on BH, for our pension VAT returns. this was because it has to be  accepted by the IR.

But it doesn't allow many entries.  We only have 3 or 4 entries per quarter for the pension, so the simplest version works.

The new project will have dozens of entries.  

I don't think we now need an IR approved one, but it might help at VAT rebate stage.

 

 

 

Yeah, there are probably cheaper options for what is a very basic bit of accounts work. Particularly if you’re not really using supplier accounts much for credit. Xero used to be a lot cheaper. A spreadsheet would do the job and either type in or download the bank transactions.

29 minutes ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Yeah, there are probably cheaper options for what is a very basic bit of accounts work. Particularly if you’re not really using supplier accounts much for credit. Xero used to be a lot cheaper. A spreadsheet would do the job and either type in or download the bank transactions.

I believe you may be able to load the same payment card, be it debit or credit, to the digital wallets of various devices. If that is true, each member of your family-build-crew could add the card of any account to their phones, and also install the account’s digital banking app to their phones, and you could all use it and access the details. 
 

At least this appears to be the case with Apple Pay on iPhones:

 

Edited December 27, 20232 yr by Adsibob

2 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

add the card of any account to their phones, and also install the account’s digital banking app to their phones, and you could all use it and access the details.

Worth giving that a go.  If it was my bank, I would hope that gets flagged up as suspicious behaviour.

But it may work.

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

Worth giving that a go.  If it was my bank, I would hope that gets flagged up as suspicious behaviour.

But it may work.

Nothing suspicious about one customer wanting access from 4 different devices. But I agree, there should be extra security measures to prevent abuse

On 26/12/2023 at 11:35, saveasteading said:

Another year, another family project.....looking likely anyway.

It's a steel barn this time. More will follow of course: we will share the journey.

 

We'd like to set up a project  bank account that all four family members could access  with each having a payment card and online access.

One will be the "accountant".

This would make cost control easier, followed by easier accounting at vat reclaim stage.

We've found that the best prices, by a distance, are obtained by immediate payment rsther than credit accounts.

 

I've heard that some banks don't like the idea because it looks like a business. I don't understand that though.

 

Experiences and suggestions would be very welcome.

Wow! you'll need to change you name to @saveabarn?

 

What if you set up a limited company, register for vat and claim quarterly? Any merit in that? You would still be able to shop about for material and just have cash acccounts as no credit record. Mind you as you have all been in the game for a long time you'll still get credit accounts from small merchants?. Even though I stopped being a Contractor years ago some small independant merchants know me personally and know I always pay my bills on time even though I front some stuff as a limited company. The banks should be ok after a bit of work, but you'll need to provide a Director's bond / guarentee, which is just another layer of paperwork.. but at the end of the day if you default they will have your house / shirt off you or equivalent.

 

In some ways a formal arms length company forces you to have regular meetings, votes etc.. it can bring discipline to the process especially if you already have an acountant that you trust to be impartial.

 

On the other hand.. a credit card with section 75 protection is a handy thing to have and the banks are not so keen to hand them out. But if you inject a healthy amount of cash into an account, set a limit on expenditure then they may take a favourable view on giving a credit card to a newly established company.. but again someone will probably be asked to guarentee that.

 

I don't see why it shouldn't work with four family members (as oppposed to two say husband and wife) especially if you you are in the construction and design business and used to managing conflict. I think the secret is to be honest and say.. look at some point we are going to disagree badly, how do we manage that, have a mechanism where design, purchasing, instructions to the contractors and programme decisions can still be made and make sure we are all stilll family at the end of the day!

 

The easy way may just to be to have one principle account holder and have an agreement in place as to how decisions are to be made.

 

Mind you I'm about to embark on something similar but on a smaller scale in a month or two. This post has helped me crystalise my own thoughts, thanks all for your responses.

 

 

 

No @Gus Potter that won't do at all. I won't go into it too much, but mixing business and private is a good way to get taxed twice if not three times.

 

E will keep it perfonal. I'm going to chat to the best placed BM, and expect a schedule of best prices for everyday materials. Then they take their chance on bigger buys.

They have no chance on bulk timber as the local mills sell direct.

But we'll see: they've got 2 choices.

 

Yes, some good ideas and advice, thanks all.

 

We watched the Grand Designs from South Somerset as was recommended today. I was impressed for once. Quite inspiring, the speed and pragmatic decisions.

The unanswered questions were about services. No water. 10 solar panels and a tiny turbine.

And no baby, as far as we know.

 

We're looking at twice that size, but mustn't jump the gun. There are still legals to do and they don't work fast down here, at least not the ones we've tried.

 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

No @Gus Potter that won't do at all.

Ok got the message, not for you.