Largest outbuilding possible with planning permission?

[saveasteading]

47 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

commercial building with living accommodation 

That also makes sense for new build. Planners, and policies, often encourage artisan combined buildings. A return to 100 years ago when high streets had workshops on the street and homes above.

[Alan Ambrose]

Yeah, understand the position re London studios - stupid expensive and often not great despite that. And often used as LPA bait until a developer figures they can make a bunch of money. 

 

If you buy a place with a biggish garden then you can probably get what you want - maybe over time with a couple of buildings. An even easier route is to buy a place with barns or and existing outbuilding and convert those - probably with no oversight by anyone. Planning departments are fairly OK about artists and artist studios - particularly if it's your livelihood. Good idea though to keep talk of "fumes / contamination / noxious / dangerous things / potential neighbour problems" to a minimum to avoid triggering the locals .

[joe90]

Ok not in your position (retired) but my place has a wood shop (posh shed) 4m x 6m, single garage (no room for double), potting shed 3 x 2m and garden shed 2 x 4m, all within PD and no BR.

[optimystery]

8 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Have you thought about a commercial building with living accommodation 

 

I have thought about that, but I'm also hoping to trade grimy urban life for somewhere a bit more quiet.
Not sure where I would look for one of those except East London or on an industrial park!
Also, the main thing is to have the living and studio separated by a bit of clean air.

It's an interesting idea though, as most houses are not designed to fit my needs.
If you have any leads on such commercial buildings, where to look for them etc please let me know!

[optimystery]

7 hours ago, saveasteading said:

That also makes sense for new build. Planners, and policies, often encourage artisan combined buildings. A return to 100 years ago when high streets had workshops on the street and homes above.

Tempting to consider, though I'm not sure the amount of work & stress involved would be worthwhile.
I'm buying under £1m and want to be fairly close to a train station.
I certainly would love to design a house though, as UK architecture is generally really awful - restricted by some of the strictest planning laws anywhere!

[joe90]

Frankly any type of building is possible (as long as meets planning rules locally,)  your biggest problem IMO is finding a property that you like/can afford with the space to put that/those buildings. Then you can decide what extra building fits your needs!

Edited December 1, 2023 by joe90

[optimystery]

I'm keeping an open mind, but yes, I agree that finding a house with decent-sized garden that has class-E status, isn't in a protected area etc, and maybe has a garage already, probably the easiest way to go 👍🏼

Thanks for the replies. Now I know it should be possible and what to look for!

One of the architects suggested applying for a certificate of lawful development before progressing with any build, which seems a good idea.
Also estate agents should be able to confirm the status before proceeding with a purchase.

[Roger440]

11 hours ago, saveasteading said:

That also makes sense for new build. Planners, and policies, often encourage artisan combined buildings. A return to 100 years ago when high streets had workshops on the street and homes above.

 

Not in the south east they dont. Bugger all chance of that.

 

That concept seems limited to the rather less economically well off areas, like cornwall. Where, it seems to be a thing.

[SteamyTea]

6 hours ago, Roger440 said:

like cornwall

Not any more.

[Roger440]

8 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Not any more.

Do you know why. When I was looking for something with a big shed I saw quite a few. 

 

It's a nonsense really. Surely working and living in the same place is the most environmentally sound approach? No need to travel. 

 

But just more evidence it's about the money, not the environment.

 

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, Roger440 said:

Do you know why

Like most places, property has become a huge multiple of wages, and like most places, they are not building any more farms/small holdings.

While it may seem cheap compared to up country, property is still a silly price down here by any measure.

[Roger440]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

Like most places, property has become a huge multiple of wages, and like most places, they are not building any more farms/small holdings.

While it may seem cheap compared to up country, property is still a silly price down here by any measure.

It's not even cheap compared to where I was in bucks. Cheaper, yes, but not enough if a difference to be relevant. Hence gave up and went to Wales. 

 

Just wondered what had changed planning policy as pre COVID it was something they were encouraging.

 

[SteamyTea]

20 minutes ago, Roger440 said:

It's not even cheap compared to where I was in bucks. Cheaper

Back in 1989/90, my old boss sold up and bought a farm.  180 acres of bankrupt dairy farm just outside Aylesbury.  With buildings and a large house, whole lot cost him £140k.

My horrible little 3 bed semi in Aylesbury was then £85k.

A quick look at the land registry site shows that the house that was 6 doors away from me, sold last year for £320k. 3.7 times the price in 1989.

The nearest comparable farm I can find to my old bosses is £1.55m, 11.1 times the price.

Farms have gone up a stupid amount, partly because land investment companies have bought them up.

Edited December 2, 2023 by SteamyTea

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> Surely working and living in the same place is the most environmentally sound approach? No need to travel. 

 

I think it's just that you're sort of slipping between the planning cracks. The rules we have are largely based around simplistic 'use-cases'. So there's residential, there's commercial and there's industrial. It sounds like you're looking for a mix of residential and commercial. Not so much artist or artisan, which are often accommodated within residential (on the basis you won't be doing much of anything to annoy anyone) but a bit more industrial - think fumes, noise etc.

 

Now there are some rules around 'live/work', which I don't pretend to know, but which you might like to investigate. You also may find some cracks between the rules that you can use to your advantage - but you'll need to know what's available to buy and why the rules are in detail. So, either a place with outbuildings you can use carefully so you don't tee anyone off or some kind of farm arrangement where mixed business and residential are the norm or even easier a house and a nearby space in a mixed studio. If you were in Suffolk I might suggest Jet for instance:

 

https://www.oldjet.co.uk/about-old-jet-arts-centre/

 

In the latter case, you have the added advantage of a community you might enjoy.

 

[optimystery]

8 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

>>> Surely working and living in the same place is the most environmentally sound approach? No need to travel. 

 

I think it's just that you're sort of slipping between the planning cracks. The rules we have are largely based around simplistic 'use-cases'. So there's residential, there's commercial and there's industrial. It sounds like you're looking for a mix of residential and commercial. Not so much artist or artisan, which are often accommodated within residential (on the basis you won't be doing much of anything to annoy anyone) but a bit more industrial - think fumes, noise etc.

 

Now there are some rules around 'live/work', which I don't pretend to know, but which you might like to investigate. You also may find some cracks between the rules that you can use to your advantage - but you'll need to know what's available to buy and why the rules are in detail. So, either a place with outbuildings you can use carefully so you don't tee anyone off or some kind of farm arrangement where mixed business and residential are the norm or even easier a house and a nearby space in a mixed studio. If you were in Suffolk I might suggest Jet for instance:

 

https://www.oldjet.co.uk/about-old-jet-arts-centre/

 

In the latter case, you have the added advantage of a community you might enjoy.

 

I remember looking at live/work around 20 years ago, and it seems not much has changed.
It's basically a marketing term for converted warehouses / loft-style apartments.

I did find an interesting (and optimistic) article about it..
https://www.ribaj.com/products/planning-for-live-work-space-post-lockdown

Old Jet looks nice, and isn't that Talvin Singh?
Still, in the end it's probably more practical to be able to work in the garden without having to travel, and pop inside to make a nice proper lunch.
If things take off I can always look at finding a second studio space. There's lots to think about as I might also want to be able to airbnb the place while travelling.
The garden outbuilding with discreet air filter / extraction seems like the best bet, and the easiest. If I take on a big project it will divert all my time and energy away from making work

Appreciate all the suggestions though 👍🏼