Beelbeebub Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 https://www.powrmatic.co.uk/products/air-conditioning/airco290/ Does anyone have experience of these units (or their predecessors which were r32)? I am thinking about replacing some storage heaters using these. The particular tenant is experiencing very high elec bills. We've traced this down to his electricity company charging him standard rate for all electricity. Eon claim they can't provide economy 7 for him due to "a complex meter setup". This is bollocks, it's a standard, albeit old, system. A standard rate meter and a night rate meter serving a dedicated heater circuit switched on and off by a clock. So instead of paying 36/12p he's stuck paying 28p. I estimate it's costing him and extra £700 or so a year. (Actually more because they are billing him 2 standing charges) One option is to try and get the meters ripped out and replaced with a single smart meter dual rate one. Physically simple, but apparently the bureaucratic equivilent of a mars mission. The other option would be to replace a few of his units with the above. Given he's paying flat rate any CoP above 1 will be a win. If it can achieve a SCoP of about 2.3 he will be back to where E7 would be, except maybe a bit better as his regular elec will be 28p not 36p. If we can better 2.3 we'll be ahead. The 3re option is a mini split. That should achieve higher cops and a single unit should be able to serve 2 or 3 rooms, but the outside unit may be more problematic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 They seem quite expensive. I think someone here fitted a similar, but cheaper version. I am a interested in one, but when I looked at the noise level I talked myself out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelbeebub Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 4 hours ago, SteamyTea said: They seem quite expensive. I think someone here fitted a similar, but cheaper version. I am a interested in one, but when I looked at the noise level I talked myself out of it. Noise level, good point. Yeah, if they were £500 a unit that would definitely get very attractive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Beelbeebub said: Yeah, if they were £500 a unit that would definitely get very attractive Have a hunt around on here (do a google site search), think the units were about 700-750 or so. Think the noise was around 50dB, my bedroom is usually around 25dB. Edited November 12, 2023 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 https://www.aircondirect.co.uk/p/1449870/10000-btu-wall-mounted-air-conditioner-and-heat-pump-without-outdoor-unit-with-wifi-for-rooms-up-to-30-sqm £800 now. Should have got one a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelbeebub Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 1 hour ago, SteamyTea said: https://www.aircondirect.co.uk/p/1449870/10000-btu-wall-mounted-air-conditioner-and-heat-pump-without-outdoor-unit-with-wifi-for-rooms-up-to-30-sqm £800 now. Should have got one a year ago. Sadly they say heating down to 7C only! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelbeebub Posted November 12, 2023 Author Share Posted November 12, 2023 I imagine defrost is a big issue with these monoblocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 6 hours ago, Beelbeebub said: Sadly they say heating down to 7C only! Not really a problem for me down here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobLe Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 7 hours ago, Beelbeebub said: Sadly they say heating down to 7C only! In the manual linked they say it works down to -15C 😁 https://www.electriq.co.uk/files/pdf/eIQ-9_12WMINV_R290 Split user 20200426.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelbeebub Posted November 13, 2023 Author Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 hours ago, RobLe said: In the manual linked they say it works down to -15C 😁 https://www.electriq.co.uk/files/pdf/eIQ-9_12WMINV_R290 Split user 20200426.pdf Good spot. That'll teach me to rely on the Q&A section!😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 7 degs in the Q&A was a start temp indoors, the unit does not start up when its under 7 degrees inside , mentioned about using a normal heater to get the that temp if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LnP Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Do these devices jeopardise the leak tightness of the structure of the house? Or is the condenser/evaporator in a sealed chamber inside the unit? I'm not thinking so much about sealing around the ducts which go through the wall, which I guess is a given, but how the internals of the device are designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelbeebub Posted November 13, 2023 Author Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 hours ago, LnP said: Do these devices jeopardise the leak tightness of the structure of the house? Or is the condenser/evaporator in a sealed chamber inside the unit? I'm not thinking so much about sealing around the ducts which go through the wall, which I guess is a given, but how the internals of the device are designed. I don't think so, here's a video with one unit being opened up EXternal air is contained within the unit, rather like a room sealed boiler. That said, a unit that deliberately took the outside air and heated it up using extracted air from the room might not be a bad thing. Basically a standalone heatpump powered MHRV unit. Would definitely help with preventing humidity and pollutant buildup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 28 minutes ago, Beelbeebub said: I don't think so, here's a video with one unit being opened up Pretty simple and nicely packaged. I think it. 29 minutes ago, Beelbeebub said: a unit that deliberately took the outside air and heated it up using extracted air from the room might not be a bad thing A bit of extra pipework and that should be possible. A venture bleed system should do it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 The brand you originally linked to can take outside air in with an option kit, so acts as ventilation unit also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelbeebub Posted December 15, 2023 Author Share Posted December 15, 2023 As a follow up, I asked the supplier for some info on the lower temp performance of the units as the literature only specs at 7C external area. Anyway they got back to me (fair play) with ... Low Ambient Heating Performance Ambient Temp. RH humidity Heating capacity in average (W) Power Input (W) COP 0 70% 2560 821 3.12 -5 70% 2477 924 2.68 -7 70% 1862 947 1.97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelbeebub Posted December 15, 2023 Author Share Posted December 15, 2023 Actually seems pretty good. Will be better than break even (carbon wise) than burning gas in a CCGT station allmthe way down to -5C, which is fairly rare in this country. Even at -7C it puts out 2kw, enough for most rooms even with fairly minimal insulation and though the cop is fairly rubbish it's still 2:1, which isnvery useful vs electric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ommm Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 58dBA, so quite loud to have in your room. Roughly like a portable A/C unit but with proper outside ducting. Might be ok for a kitchen or something, but I wouldn't want it in a living room or bedroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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