Hep2O the last metre

[MortarThePoint]

What would you recommend for the last bit of a water connection when using Hep2O? If I have a pipe going up a wall and ideally chased in, should I use an elbow to come out of the wall or keep going with the same bit of pipe and then use something like one of their flexible connectors? That would leave a potentially ugly to plaster around bit though.

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/hep2o-push-fit-flexible-tap-connectors-15mm-x-1-2-x-300mm-2-pack/1250f

 

For showers I am swapping to copper which then sticks out of the wall.

 

I have a stand alone bath as well which has taps on the less visible side. It still feels a bit funny to have Hep2O jutting out of the floor all the way to the taps, but I guess why not.

[MortarThePoint]

@Nickfromwales You like to keep things tidy. What do you do when you have Hep2O in the plaster leading to a basin?

[Nickfromwales]

12 hours ago, MortarThePoint said:

@Nickfromwales You like to keep things tidy. What do you do when you have Hep2O in the plaster leading to a basin?

Do you mean how would I convert what’s ‘on display’ if the pipe is Hep and it’s that which is poking out, vs having been converted to copper? Is the Hep fixed or does it have play? Issue may be, gripping hold of the pipe to push a fitting on, but if you be Hep on display you’ll need a minimum of one Hep fitting to get you to copper. 
If you want / need to convert to copper that is? Pics?

[MortarThePoint]

27 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Do you mean how would I convert what’s ‘on display’ if the pipe is Hep and it’s that which is poking out, vs having been converted to copper? Is the Hep fixed or does it have play? Issue may be, gripping hold of the pipe to push a fitting on, but if you be Hep on display you’ll need a minimum of one Hep fitting to get you to copper. 
If you want / need to convert to copper that is? Pics?

 

It's a more general question of when you have a Hep2O pipe that leads to a basin and is coming up from floor level. Do you:

1. make the Hep2O visible out of the floor and do the vertical all on the wall surface
2. keep the Hep2O in the wall and then exit at a shallow angle part way up and then connect to a flexi adapter
3. swap to copper in the wall and exit the wall in copper

Here is a rough diagram of option 2 with the blockwork in grey and plaster in pink. The Hep2O is dark blue and then it's connected to the flexi.

 

Just plastering round the pipe would make it hard to have a nice finish and also risk damaging the pipe. It's a common thing to do with radiator pipe and I have seen a number of products for 10mm pipe but also found this:

 

https://www.manthorpebp.co.uk/air-leakage/radiator-pipe-guides-and-seals-–-increased-thermal-efficiency/grs-duo-15-15mm-radiator

[Temp]

If the pipe goes up in the wall you normally need a 90 degree bend in the wall to bring it out under the basin.

 

If you run it exposed up the wall you might get away with a large radius bend hidden in the floor. But the exposed pipe is ugly. If you use copper then you need a joint hidden in the floor.

 

So either way you need a hidden joint.

 

Buy the plinth base for the basin to hide the pipe?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

In my GF bathroom I brought the pipes up in the footprint of the pedestal, so you can’t see any plumbing other than the waste pipe existing horizontally through the wall. 
 

On 22/09/2023 at 09:26, MortarThePoint said:

• make the Hep2O visible out of the floor and do the vertical all on the wall surface
• keep the Hep2O in the wall and then exit at a shallow angle part way up and then connect to a flexi adapter
• swap to copper in the wall and exit the wall in copper

1, best of the worst, but defo convert to copper and clip it. 
2. not whilst I’ve a hole in my you-know-where 👎👎👎

3. #1 choice, using a Hep 90 in the wall to allow copper to be on show. 
 

Behind a radiator is where those plates get used, eg where they’ll never be seen and where there is no need to fill / sand / decorate around them. 

[markocosic]

Copper out the wall is still naff to plaster around/look at if you're then going to a tap of some kind.

 

How about wall plate elbows?

 

https://wavin.com/en-sg/product/f0bb1231-b2fc-4949-8c8d-bd4a6615a933

 

Run hep to that. Screw in a plastic dummy.  Plaster. Unscrew plastic dummy. Screw in either an ISO valve then the tap hose or a hose with a 1/2" male end; through a rosette to hide the plaster edges.

 

 

As above is how they do this by default over here; looks neat to my eye and is easier to plaster over / around than flexible pipe at a jaunty angle too.

 

If working in a 45 mm battened service cavity you take a lump of 25 mm decking board, use that to span two upright studs, and screw the wall plate elbow to that. The threaded bit then sticks into a hole in the plasterboard a convenient amount.

 

If working in metal stud partitions you again whack a wooden noggin across two studs and screw your wall elbow to that; thickens of noggin to suit metal stud width.

 

If chasing into a masonry wall...resin fix / glue is your friend whilst jaunty angled screws into wallplugs into dust sets.

 

If doing a shower it can be easier/cheaper to buy one of those 2x 1/2" female-female-brass fittings-onna- wallplate thingamies and screw two 1/2" male to help adapters into it.

[crispy_wafer]

Nice elegant solution!

 

So one of these from your link.

to one of these? (Grohe, others are available too!)

[markocosic]

That looks like a 1/2" male tap > 10 mm soft copper connection (probably comes with a thread for a 3/8" tap connector, a flat faceish coupling, and a special adapter to take 10 mm copper pipe) for a bog.

 

 

You also get them for 1/2">1'2", 1/2">3/4", or indeed dual outlet for a kitchen basin and dishwasher simultaneously.

 

Usually start with a 1/2" elbow:

https://online.depo-diy.lt/product/24002

 

Into a 10 mm compression or 3/8" thread:

https://online.depo-diy.lt/product/25638

 

1/2" thread:

https://online.depo-diy.lt/product/25639

 

3/4" thread:

https://online.depo-diy.lt/product/25640

 

Or combo units for doing a dishwasher and a kitchen sink:

https://online.depo-diy.lt/product/25630

https://www.senukai.lt/p/ventilis-schell-kampinis-skalbimo-masinai-3-8-colio-isorinis-sriegis-1-2-colio-isorinis-sriegis-10-mm-suverziamas/302d?mtd=search&pos=regular&src=searchnode

 

 

It may be easier to use a shower fitting even for a basin etc:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322273391778

 

And a couple of hep2o adapters:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/hep2o-plastic-push-fit-adapting-male-coupler-15mm-x-1-2-/5970f

 

As that gives you more meat to screw to the wall. At the expense of more joints.

 

 

If anybody wants a 1/2" to 3/8" BLACK valve I have one on my desk that's yours for a donation to the forum. Pocketed and Ryanaired for a friend only to find he wanted 1/2" to 1/2" doh!

 

https://online.depo-diy.lt/product/360380

 

[MortarThePoint]

Sadly Wavin don't appear to make the brass wallplate elbows any more, just the plastic ones which look rubbish.

 

The only option left is 10mm(F) to 15mm(F) coupler with 15mm copper in and then a 15mm to 1/2" compression wallplate elbow. Heeding @Nickfromwales advice to avoid Hep2O into compression fittings.

[crispy_wafer]

If any assistance, I'm using 1/2 to 1/2 shower wallplates from Warmer, with hep 1/2 to 15 transitions.

 

[MortarThePoint]

@Nickfromwales I know you warn against mixing Hep2o pipe and compression fittings, but should I also avoid compression fittings on their spigots? I'm wondering about using the two parts below to replace the now discontinued brass wallplate elbow. I can't find 1/2 X 1/2 wallplate elbow to use the hep2o BSP adapter.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by MortarThePoint

[Thorfun]

There are other makes of copper pushfit. I used copper from Hep2o bend to JG brass elbow. All push fit. 

[crispy_wafer]

1 hour ago, MortarThePoint said:

I can't find 1/2 X 1/2 wallplate elbow to use the hep2o BSP adapter.

1/2 Inch Elbow Backplate Pipe Fitting Back Plate Wall Mount (plumbing4home.com)  Bit pricey, Think I paid that for the warmer shower wall plate.  

or G 1/2'' Brass Wall mounted 2-way Air Junction 16 Bar | Tameson.co.uk

 

[crispy_wafer]

concealed-shower-bracketlength-150mm-thermostatic-mixer-tap-bar-back-plate-bsp-thread-faucet-connection-set-12x12-x-l-150 (pswtradesuppliers.co.uk) 

 

If pushed, and you need singles, you could buy these, saw in half, drill holes in the plate if needed and mount...  Not as aesthetically pleasing, but sometimes you just have to innovate.

[MortarThePoint]

6 minutes ago, crispy_wafer said:

concealed-shower-bracketlength-150mm-thermostatic-mixer-tap-bar-back-plate-bsp-thread-faucet-connection-set-12x12-x-l-150 (pswtradesuppliers.co.uk) 

 

If pushed, and you need singles, you could buy these, saw in half, drill holes in the plate if needed and mount...  Not as aesthetically pleasing, but sometimes you just have to innovate.

 

I was wondering about doing that 

[MortarThePoint]

3 hours ago, crispy_wafer said:

1/2 Inch Elbow Backplate Pipe Fitting Back Plate Wall Mount (plumbing4home.com)  Bit pricey, Think I paid that for the warmer shower wall plate.  

or G 1/2'' Brass Wall mounted 2-way Air Junction 16 Bar | Tameson.co.uk

 

 

https://www.plumbingsuperstore.co.uk/product/brass-90-elbow-fxf-12-inch.html

These don't have the screw plate, but could be anchored in place with bonding / plasterboard adhesive / something. I think strictly the whole lot should be accessible for maintenance, but that doesn't seem to be how people to it with wallplates etc.

[crispy_wafer]

I'm not sure I'd be bonding in place to be honest, a bit of twist when threading and I get the feeling it could break free.

 

I think we can take the 'must be accessible' far too rigidly at times.  I'm not sure there are too many cases where the joint, or transition to copper isn't either behind the wall, or in the wall face, cupboards I guess you can run hep right to the tails, or appliance outlets using service voids.  Showers and some bathroom fixtures necessitate joints at valves that are concealed and at the outlets.  It's about mitigating risk as much as possible and choosing which compromises are worth taking.  

 

p.s I purchased a frame for hanging a basin this weekend and that too had 1/2 - 1/2 wall plate elbows on it too, so they must be somewhere out there.