Soft Stripping - Health and Safety

[Barney12]

No that's not an X rated activity! Sorry to disappoint.

OK, so when we finally get approval from Natural England to demolish our house we are required to "soft strip" the concrete roof tiles under the supervision of the ecologist. In short this involves removing each tile one by one (starting at the eves) with the ecologist present so that any bats can be safely removed and shown to their new home. All sounds simple enough but there is one issue that I'd like the collective views of the assembled on...........

The soft strip will be done by a local roofing contractor I've known for donkeys years. When I asked him of his method he said "I'll use a ladder or mobile tower to get to the eaves and strip the first few rows. I'll then be up onto the batons and work up the roof. Me and my two labourers will have it stripped in a day".

So I duly advised the ecologists of the planned method and they came back and said "No. The entire house will need to be scaffold to the eaves to allow proper access".

To  which I replied "ridiculous". "You're expecting me to pay for all 4 elevations to be fully scaffolded for ONE day so you can stand and watch a roofer". "Sorry, not happening!".

To which they replied "Oh. Erm. Well. You'll have to carry out the soft strip in a method that your roofing contractor is happy meets H&S requirements".

Now I happen to have some experience in terms of Risk Assessments and Method Statements and also working at height. I am also quite happy that if my chosen contractor has completed his risk assessment and is happy, then fine. I may force him to implement basic fall arrest methods.

So where does this leave me?

I am considering a compromise which involves:

Installing two towers (North and South elevations) for easy access onto the roof. Providing a harness and man anchor for use by the ecologist IF they want to use it.

But then I think. No sod it. I'll supply RAMS using the methodology our roofing contractor is happy with in advance. If they're not happy, they'll need to say so.

Hmmmmm.

[PeterW]

Do not under any circumstances provide the harness and anchor to the ecologist ! If you have a RAMS statement and the contractor has a suitable method statement then the ecologist needs to do their own RA to decide if further risk mitigation is required. 

If you provide it, your RAMS cannot state it is optional. You also need to then either be trained in the installation and use of it, or have someone who is to ensure the ecologist doesn't slip and trap a gonad if they haven't put the harness on correctly ...

You are also obliged to ask the ecologist for their RAMS statement for the removal and rehousing as you do not need someone jumping about on the roof when a lesser spotted blue pippistrelle or something else is found. They need to tell you how they will do that ...

[ProDave]

Okay I am going to ask a VERY daft question.

Can the ecologist not go INTO the loft space and have a look for any bats BEFORE you strip off any tiles? Remove any bats present or declare than none are present, then let the roofer strip the roof on his own.

Why make things complicated?

[Alex C]

I think the issue is that they live between the felt and the tile. I have had this issue on another job but the ecologist was happy to watch from the ground whilst a few tiles were removed, then climb a ladder and take another look. My ecologist friend tells me you don't normally get bats under concrete tiles as they interlock too close. You tend to get bats on wall hung hand made tiles, or where there is damage to the corner of a tile making a hole. I assume the ecologist found strong evidence for bats living in your roof to have to be present for the whole roof strip.

[Jeremy Harris]

18 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Okay I am going to ask a VERY daft question.

Can the ecologist not go INTO the loft space and have a look for any bats BEFORE you strip off any tiles? Remove any bats present or declare than none are present, then let the roofer strip the roof on his own.

Why make things complicated?

The more complicated they can make it the more money they can charge and the greater the level of inconvenience they can cause.

My experience of these people is that the have a mentality like some conservation officers, they start from a position that is totally and absolutely opposed to you doing anything, and they then try every way they can to make your life as damned difficult as possible, in the hope that you will give up and not do the work.  One actually said as much to me a few years ago, saying that their basic premise was to oppose all forms of change or development because it inevitably had an adverse impact as far as they were concerned.

[Mikey_1980]

can you not strap a camera to the hard hat of the roofer with a live video feed, they can watch from the comfort of their car!

[Barney12]

10 hours ago, ProDave said:

Okay I am going to ask a VERY daft question.

Can the ecologist not go INTO the loft space and have a look for any bats BEFORE you strip off any tiles? Remove any bats present or declare than none are present, then let the roofer strip the roof on his own.

Why make things complicated?

 

9 hours ago, Alex C said:

I think the issue is that they live between the felt and the tile. I have had this issue on another job but the ecologist was happy to watch from the ground whilst a few tiles were removed, then climb a ladder and take another look. My ecologist friend tells me you don't normally get bats under concrete tiles as they interlock too close. You tend to get bats on wall hung hand made tiles, or where there is damage to the corner of a tile making a hole. I assume the ecologist found strong evidence for bats living in your roof to have to be present for the whole roof strip.

The bats do indeed live between the roofing felt and tiles (as well as in the roof void).

Although the tiles were installed in the early 80's the roof fabric and roof line date back to the 50's. We also have no soffits (it's a traditional detail here on the park). The property wasn't maintained for a good 30 years so alas the entry points are numerous!

[Barney12]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

The more complicated they can make it the more money they can charge and the greater the level of inconvenience they can cause.

My experience of these people is that the have a mentality like some conservation officers, they start from a position that is totally and absolutely opposed to you doing anything, and they then try every way they can to make your life as damned difficult as possible, in the hope that you will give up and not do the work.  One actually said as much to me a few years ago, saying that their basic premise was to oppose all forms of change or development because it inevitably had an adverse impact as far as they were concerned.

Agreed!!

[Barney12]

10 hours ago, PeterW said:

Do not under any circumstances provide the harness and anchor to the ecologist ! If you have a RAMS statement and the contractor has a suitable method statement then the ecologist needs to do their own RA to decide if further risk mitigation is required. 

If you provide it, your RAMS cannot state it is optional. You also need to then either be trained in the installation and use of it, or have someone who is to ensure the ecologist doesn't slip and trap a gonad if they haven't put the harness on correctly ...

You are also obliged to ask the ecologist for their RAMS statement for the removal and rehousing as you do not need someone jumping about on the roof when a lesser spotted blue pippistrelle or something else is found. They need to tell you how they will do that ...

I am actually trained in harness use competency (and inspection) so could provide what's needed. But, I agree your point. I think I just won't offer any help and let them make their own decisions!