Accidentally converted a listed building without consent

[Pedro29]

And now Heritage officers are being awkward! 
 

In 2017 before I brought my house, I paid for pre app advice and requested a heritage officer attend a site visit to discuss what restrictions and considerations needed to be addressed if I wanted to extend the property…and refurbish an old brick building into usable space. The officer came and said the site is within a conservation area, surrounded by listed buildings but is not listed itself as had no LB consent when the old storerooms were converted to a dwelling in the mid 80’s. He never provided an officers written report. 
 

We brought the house, moved in and decided to begin work on refurbishing the old brick building. But before I started I arranged a telephone appointment with a LPA heritage officer to discuss the scope of works. He advised that what I proposed doing fell under PDR. I carried out the works as discussed. 
 

Fast forward 6 months after completing works and one thing led to another and … we began renting the space as a holiday let . Four years later and planning enforcement  have asked us to submit an app for change of use. We couldn’t apply for a certificate of lawfulness as didn’t have proof/evidence (although we do have more than 4 years solid evidence of continuous use now). 
 

Our planning app was going really well with loads of support until the heritage officers (both of whom provided the original advice) stated that the building was listed due to being attached to a listed building, and that we have to resubmit the app as well as apply of LB consent. 

I believe the officers are correct as the old brick building was just outside of the red line plan for the planning consent in the 80’s not requiring LB consent! So is listed as attached to a listed building! 
 

After reading Historic Englands guidance and advice, there does appear to be ambiguity regarding whether LB consent is required. I strongly feel there’s no impact on the special interest of the main listed building. The old brick building arguably had no historic or architectural value until I finished refurbishing it. And it is almost identical to the main dwelling in terms of design, envelope, orientation and relationship to surrounding buildings as the main dwelling (that didn’t need LB consent in the 80’s) although the brick building is about a 3rd of the size. 

I don’t want to spend more time, effort and money resubmitting the application but don’t really know where to go with this. 
 

what would you do? 

[eandg]

If possible I'd do some digging and find a former LA planner that's well-liked and/or respected by their former colleagues/members and is topping up their pension doing some consultancy work - there's usually a handful of them about in the bigger authorities - and pay them for a couple of days of their time to do the legwork, schmoozing and report writing for you. 

[Dave Jones]

key here is holiday let. This change of use specifically needs planning as the rules changed.

 

Maybe worth going back to residential first via certificate of lawfullness as it was converted in the 80's shouldnt be an issue.

 

Once you got that then look at change of use planning ?

[ToughButterCup]

7 hours ago, Pedro29 said:

...
I don’t want to spend more time, effort and money resubmitting the application but don’t really know where to go with this. 

...

 

You have one alternative to the above. Do nothing

 

7 hours ago, Pedro29 said:

...

 due to being attached to a listed building, ...  we have to resubmit the app as well as apply [for] LB consent. 

....

 

How was the request phrased ?  - could / should / must / have to by [...date...] / failure to apply will [.... penalty...] . Could you copy and paste the key wording from the letter (email?) please.

 

In the absence of a direct enforceable instruction that has significant financial consequence to you,  I suggest you do absolutely nothing.

[ProDave]

More details needed.

 

YOUR house is not listed, correct?

 

But they say the outbuilding is attached to a listed building, so it it attached to one of your neighbours houses that is listed?

 

If you are SURE you converted it more that 4 years before you go the enforcement notice, then I would pursue a lawful development claim.

 

To avoid muddying the waters, I would stop the holiday let business just now and put it back to residential use for the house.  Get the planning or lawful development issue sorted out first.  

[Pedro29]

18 hours ago, eandg said:

If possible I'd do some digging and find a former LA planner that's well-liked and/or respected by their former colleagues/members and is topping up their pension doing some consultancy work - there's usually a handful of them about in the bigger authorities - and pay them for a couple of days of their time to do the legwork, schmoozing and report writing for you. 

Thanks, I’ll have a search. Think there is a guy quite local

[Pedro29]

12 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

key here is holiday let. This change of use specifically needs planning as the rules changed.

 

Maybe worth going back to residential first via certificate of lawfullness as it was converted in the 80's shouldnt be an issue.

 

Once you got that then look at change of use planning ?

Change of use from ancillary to main house (which is what it was) to holiday let as I understand it is subject to 4 years before it’s immune to enforcement. 
 

unfortunately if the building is deemed listed I don’t think there is a time limit for enforcement. The council will argue  the building could never have been a holiday let with out the work being done. 

[Pedro29]

12 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

You have one alternative to the above. Do nothing

 

 

How was the request phrased ?  - could / should / must / have to by [...date...] / failure to apply will [.... penalty...] . Could you copy and paste the key wording from the letter (email?) please.

 

In the absence of a direct enforceable instruction that has significant financial consequence to you,  I suggest you do absolutely nothing.

The enforcement officer originally gave 2 options, 1. apply for certificate of lawfulness (as we had over 4 years continuous use). 2. Submit a planning app to “regularise” the use. We chose 2 as may want to use as ancillary later on and didn’t have strong enough evidence for 1 at the time.

 

My concern with doing nothing and having the planning app refused is the officers report will include concerns over listing status and enforcement will issue a notice to include this, not just the change of use which was the original issue. Or we’ll appeal enforcement under grounds ‘D’ only to have a further enforcement notice to include works to listed building! 

 

I spoke with the current reporting officer over the phone. He’s said as the current app is only for change of use I would need to reapply to include the works that have been done to the building, along with an app for LB consent. I’ve asked him to check with his manager if I’m able to just change the app title but haven’t heard back. 
 

The holiday let represents the most significant part of our household income. 

[Pedro29]

11 hours ago, ProDave said:

More details needed.

 

YOUR house is not listed, correct?

 

But they say the outbuilding is attached to a listed building, so it it attached to one of your neighbours houses that is listed?

 

If you are SURE you converted it more that 4 years before you go the enforcement notice, then I would pursue a lawful development claim.

 

To avoid muddying the waters, I would stop the holiday let business just now and put it back to residential use for the house.  Get the planning or lawful development issue sorted out first.  

It a bit more complicated. A large double fronted listed house use to be the only property on site. Old storage rooms/sheds attached to the back of the building were given planning consent in the 80’s to convert to a new separate residential dwelling. This new dwelling never needed listed building consent so is not considered listed. We brought this new dwelling in 2017 along with the rest of the land at the back of the original double fronted listed house. The brick built building we refurbished is attached to the listed double

fronted house but sits on our land. Unfortunately the planning consent for our new dwelling in the 80’s didn’t include the old brick building within the site plan! 
 

My concern If we do stop using it as a holiday let is the ‘continuous use’ bit also finishes and wouldn’t be able to apply for a certificate of lawfulness due to break in use. The work done to the building I belibe fall under operational development which is subject to 10 year rule. 

[Dave Jones]

go pay a professional planner/lawyer. rolling the dice on the majority of your income on internet advice when we barely know the facts is probably even more risky.

[Pedro29]

Thanks, I have paid a planner. When you’re in the think of it though it’s actually useful to get some outside points of view

and advice. There’s always the chance that something not considered gets thrown into the mix. 
 

when you’ve been in the forest so long you sometimes stop seeing the trees! 

[Temp]

On 08/08/2023 at 20:02, Pedro29 said:

The enforcement officer originally gave 2 options, 1. apply for certificate of lawfulness (as we had over 4 years continuous use). 2. Submit a planning app to “regularise” the use. We chose 2 as may want to use as ancillary later on and didn’t have strong enough evidence for 1 at the time.

 

Have they actually initiated enforcement action or just warned you that they will if you don't do xyz?

 

If they haven't initiated enforcement action I would speak to a planning consultant asap about an application for a certificate of lawful development on the grounds it's too late to initiate enforcement action.

 

You can always apply for separate PP later or at same time.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Temp