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Fire Escape Options


LiamJones

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I would agree that another window in the flank would be ideal (if not obstructed by the abutting roof line). If not then you have a potential issue for your staircase approach. Paragraph 2.10 sets out the parameters for escape windows. It states that the level of the window should be no more than 1.1m off the floor. This is where your building control body may have an issue or may not - it'll be down to their interpretation whether your landing constitutes a floor. They may or they may not. If they do then that landing should be at least the width of the narrowest part of the stair and have a length again equal or more to the narrowest part of the stair. So arguably a 600mm wide stair with a 600mm x 600mm landing would be ok, although they may then query the headroom. As to the height of the rooflight above the outside ground you will see that para 2.10 doesn't mention that.

 

All this is assuming the bedroom floor is not more than 4.5m above ground level. 

 

In all I'd be discussing this asap with building control, explain the listed building status issues and perhaps offer an enhanced fire detection system above and beyond the normal requirement.

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Just one observation, on the drawings, you have 2x "Bedroom 2" s - even though they are on different floors, this may will cause confusion in the build / fit out.

 

 

Edited by Blooda
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...............................also - have you been asked for EEWs from the Study and Bedroom 1 on the GF?

 

You should also:

Change the SAA in the Laundry to a HAA.

Put an SAA in the Boot Room (circulation space).

Put another HAA in the Kitchen/Family (a HAA has an effective radius of 5.3m).

 

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5 hours ago, ETC said:

...............................also - have you been asked for EEWs from the Study and Bedroom 1 on the GF?

 

You should also:

Change the SAA in the Laundry to a HAA.

Put an SAA in the Boot Room (circulation space).

Put another HAA in the Kitchen/Family (a HAA has an effective radius of 5.3m).

 

unfortunately I posted the wrong plans as these don't show the correct sizes for the GF bedroom windows both of which are existing openings of 1.4x1.4m so these should work as EEW's

I think I follow on the Laundry and Boot room etc, sorry for the dum question but the abreviations HAA and SAA?

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 27/01/2024 at 19:08, Temp said:

 

Yes that's because a bungalow loft conversion normally results in a two storey house where as most loft conversions result in a three story house.

 

So the rules for a bungalow loft conversion are similar to that of a two storey house without loft conversion. They typically only requires interlinked alarms.

 

It's actually the height that matters not the number of floors but the effect is the same.


 

has anyone resolved this? Can linked alarms solve this on their own ? 
the bottom of my velux’s are 4.4 m above ground level and the first floor is 2.7m above ground level 

Edited by Nic
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Anyone know if it’s acceptable to have a ladder to reach base of escape Velux if it’s at 1.7m instead of the 1.1m on first floor ? 

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8 hours ago, Nic said:

Anyone know if it’s acceptable to have a ladder to reach base of escape Velux if it’s at 1.7m instead of the 1.1m on first floor ? 

Do you mean a fixed ladder on the inside?

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4 hours ago, markc said:

Do you mean a fixed ladder on the inside?

Yes, possibly like a loft hatch to reveal a short ladder to get up to the 1.7m fill of the roof light ?? 

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1 hour ago, Nic said:

Yes, possibly like a loft hatch to reveal a short ladder to get up to the 1.7m fill of the roof light ?? 

The question/sticking points here would be, would a rung of a ladder be classed or accepted as floor and escape windows must be at eye level. Again could this be on a ladder? Probably no to both, but what if there was a small platform or landing?  I’m going to say no, you won’t get away with it, even though the likelihood of needing it is relatively low.

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You know the only way to resolve this is to ask your BC provider. It's them that are going to have to sign this off. This what the flexibility of the Approved Document approach was supposed to do - allow for unique design features to be assessed against the basic requirement of providing adequate means of escape in case of fire. The pre- 1985 regulations were prescriptive and any diversion had to be dealt with by a formal relaxation application.

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That's not a change in regulations, that's a change in attitude. I agree you can get the "I can't design it for you approach" but equally the OP has a suggested solution - a short fixed ladder. That should be sufficient to open a sensible discussion with BC as to compliance. If you don't ask you'll never know.

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@kandgmitchell It isn't dis-similar to a current BCO picking me up on a wording on a drawing. It related to the depth of foundations and that the depth is subject to BCO inspection and approval. The BCO asked me to change the note, otherwise he wouldn't approve it. His comments stated...

 

Following the October 2023 changes to the Regulations and subsequent guidance issued to BCBs around “design advice”, we are not approving jobs with this wording. I can approve if a foundation design can be provided from a suitably qualified structural engineer, who has considered the site conditions. Alternatively I can conditionally approve, subject to such a design being provided. Our job on site is checking the contractor is following the design, rather than participating in the design on site. I understand this seems a subtle difference, but I won’t approve these plans with the phrase “agreed on site with building inspector”.

 

So asking them what "they" would accept is no more and it's down to the client/contractor/designer to present a suitable deign for approval.

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I would agree to some extent. I see many architects drawings with a phrase such as " drainage layout to be agreed between builder and building inspector" and your example regarding foundations. That is unfairly using BC as a cheap design service and some designers/builders do take the p...s. However, BC has to agree matters on site when a building notice is used and I would hate to see things degenerate to a point where professional common sense could not be exercised on site.

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  • 1 month later...

Err hope you all don’t mind I have a similar situation 

 

My velux bottom is 1.7 from first FF. so a small escape window with a fire escape door type release is being suggested ( permanent frosted glass) see attached photos . The planners are saying below , which if I’m honest I have no idea what they mean😂… a clue anyone ? 
 
“We are still considering the additional info re the fire escape window and are discussions as to whether we feel we can have sufficient control over the opening of this window in the event of an emergency only through condition.”

 

 

????????
 

 
 

IMG_9040.jpeg

IMG_9041.jpeg

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Upper floor side facing windows wouldn’t usually be allowed any openings above 1.7m above floor level. So that would cancel out any form of escape window or door. Should the LPA agree, that will be the first I’ve heard of the LPA accepting a window/door for means of escape ONLY.

 

Can you not provide a protected corridor?

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6 minutes ago, DevilDamo said:

Upper floor side facing windows wouldn’t usually be allowed any openings above 1.7m above floor level. So that would cancel out any form of escape window or door. Should the LPA agree, that will be the first I’ve heard of the LPA accepting a window/door for means of escape ONLY.

 

Can you not provide a protected corridor?


there is no option for a corridor at all 🤞🏼

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