is this cost high?

[IJM01]

Hi All,

I've got planning permission for a 5 bed house finally and now its time to get the detailed designs/building regs in. My architect is trying to push the whole thing under one package, whereas I'm going to get each piece of work packaged up and get people to tender. I'd hopefully want someone to do the groundwork/foundations etc, someone for the substructure, someone for the roof etc get it water tights and then do the internals or at least get one builder to do everything outside and i do all the internals myself with help.

What my architect is proposing is: -

Building regs and construction:

B-Regs pack and the construction pack is that some architects will split this.  We’ve found it’s more time (and cost) efficient to do these as one package.  

 

In simple terms the b-regs pack is the bare minimum required to get sign off.   As an example this would state “external walls to be cavity walls and are to achieve 0.18U-Value” but wouldn’t tell you how to achieve this.

 

The construction pack would add the build-up for all of the elements of the build and look at the integration of the structural design within this too as large scale details.  For example it would say “external walls to be brick faced with 120mm cavity partially filled with 90mm Kingspan CW27.  Inner leaf of block faced in 12.5mm plasterboard.  Allow for weep holes at 750 horizontal and 450mm vertical centres”. It would also provide items such as a full technical drawing for the staircase design for joiners to price from.  It would include full electrical layouts, not just fire alarm positions etc for b-regs etc etc.

£6k + vat

£950+ vat for the structural engineer.

Obviously, I've used the architect to get past planning and think he's decent and honest. Is it prudent to shop around for this next stage or do they seem reasonable? He's a riba architect with all the badges etc. I like him it just seems a lot. 

 

 

[Bonner]

I paid less and got less. For example, staircase can be designed for free by one of the specialist suppliers but if the architect does it, you can be assured it will fit! Electrical layout can be done by yourself but useful to get a professional take on it. If the architect works with the structural engineer, you have got a better chance of avoiding pitfalls during the build. All lessons learned for me. All in all, it seems a reasonable price.

[nod]

Get the basics 

The problem with a package for electrical is It probably won’t suit you 

Weve done it all before and I’m still in the same position as last time 

Waiting for my wife to decide where the kitchen is going I’m still not sure how many bedrooms and bathrooms we are having 

As above withe the stairs Let the guys who are making them come out and measure 

Get your working drawings and building regs submitted Then cut your Architect loose 

[IJM01]

Thanks @Bonner, i agree somewhat but i just cant see everything being decided at this point.

@nod - thats my thought too. I cant My wife cant make a final decision on all the internals which means its kind of pointless to do this only to get charged to change it later. What I really just want is to get building regs and whatever else the council needs in terms of the design at a basic level. What I dont want to do is pay for things I dont require/need or that are more than likely to change a lot, architects are good it seems and telling you everything is required. 

Thanks for your opinions

 

[kandgmitchell]

Well you're going to have to make some decisions for a bldg reg application! The internal layout for instance can impact on structure, means of escape in case of fire, access for the disabled, ventilation, overheating; need I go on?

 

Even so that architects suggestion that all that would be needed is "the walls would have a U value of 0.18W/m2K" would be a bit wide of the mark, he'd be asked "how do they achieve a U value of 0.18W/m2K?" by most BCO's.

 

Not sure you need the "full technical details of the stairs" for the joiners, as above get the basic configuration onto the bldg reg plans and then get the joiner to measure and make them. Electrical layouts? You should be able to mark up a drawing with plug sockets etc. At this stage it looks like you need something in-between.

[saveasteading]

Your example of possible issues is a good one.

Until you know how you plan to build the wall, you don't know your insulatin level, bur you don't even know how thick the walls are, or your room sizes. Then ig affects foundations , floor and roof.

 

So saying "to achieve 0.18" is not design  just a promised target.

 

 Don't like this part way approach.

[Jilly]

It depends how experienced you are. I learnt the hard way it's a bad idea to change to a cheaper architects technician for the BC drawings. Because he wasn't in the end, as there was no joined up thinking and it wasn't his baby, so plenty of expensive stuff ups, where I seemed to get the blame, through lack of experience.

 

Hence getting proper construction drawings done would have been a very good idea...

 

Oh, and that darned thing about everyone wanting to know how you want the kitchen and lights etc etc sooo far in advance. It IS important, even tho' it seems daft and there's plenty of time. Procrastination about this drives everyone mad, so make mock ups, scale models, whatever it takes to really imagine using the space and make as many decisions as you can.

 

How ever hard you plan, there seems to always be a point where you walk on site and realise something won't work, and needs to be changed, you just got to hope its not too expensive...Ask me how I know. 

[ETC]

On 05/06/2023 at 19:49, IJM01 said:

Hi All,

I've got planning permission for a 5 bed house finally and now it’s time to get the detailed designs/building regs in. My architect is trying to push the whole thing under one package, whereas I'm going to get each piece of work packaged up and get people to tender. Not a bad idea if you want to manage the build yourself - not so good for liability and managing H&S.

I'd hopefully want someone to do the groundwork/foundations etc, someone for the substructure, someone for the roof etc get it water tights and then do the internals or at least get one builder to do everything outside and i do all the internals myself with help.

What my architect is proposing is: -

Building regs and construction:

B-Regs pack and the construction pack is that some architects will split this.  We’ve found it’s more time (and cost) efficient to do these as one package.  

 

In simple terms the b-regs pack is the bare minimum required to get sign off.   As an example this would state “external walls to be cavity walls and are to achieve 0.18U-Value” but wouldn’t tell you how to achieve this. Rubbish. Your BCO will want to know how you will achieve all your u-values as part of the Building Regulations submission.

 

The construction pack would add the build-up for all of the elements of the build and look at the integration of the structural design within this too as large scale details.  For example it would say “external walls to be brick faced with 120mm cavity partially filled with 90mm Kingspan CW27.  Inner leaf of block faced in 12.5mm plasterboard.  Allow for weep holes at 750 horizontal and 450mm vertical centres”. It would also provide items such as a full technical drawing for the staircase design for joiners to price from.  It would include full electrical layouts, not just fire alarm positions etc for b-regs etc etc. Again - apart from the design of the staircase (which any decent architect can do easily) and the full electrical layout (which will change when you get to site anyway) - rubbish - this information is needed for BC approval. Also location of SAA/HAA and CO alarms is also required for a BC application.

£6k + vat

Having said that this is very cheap for full construction drawings.

£950+ vat for the structural engineer.

Cheap too.

Obviously, I've used the architect to get past planning and think he's decent and honest. Is it prudent to shop around for this next stage or do they seem reasonable? He's a riba architect with all the badges etc. I like him it just seems a lot.  To design your house and get you past planning and BC and into a position that allows you to build this is cheap. Cheap if the house is a reasonable size expensive if it’s a shoe box.

 

[mr rusty]

I think you have to ask yourself where the design risk sits. If you have a comprehensive design from an architect and pass it to a builder in the round and say "build this", then without too much doubt the design risk sits with the architect. If you have an outline design/specification and issue a design and build contract to a builder where he builds what you want according to a general specification, and the builder ensures all BR compliance, the design risk sits with the builder. If you have an outline design from the architect, and you act as project manager and employ trades people to complete work as and when you want it done, then the design risk mostly sits with you. Inevitably on the project there is a "risk pot" somewhere, so it's a good idea to be very clear who is holding it.