Brise soleils or balconies

[ProDave]

The balcony, now it has it's deck on, does indeed shade the living room below.  I now predict in winter we might wish it was not there and might make the room dark.  

[Furnace]

Just now, saveasteading said:

There is usually a relatively small bracket to the wall, taking a lot of vertical,  load, trying to twist the bracket off the wall.

I've only fitted them once, on a steel building. As you say, planning ahead is important. We put vertical steels behind each bracket. 

In timber frame it would be similar.

Installing the required strengthening into the structure makes sense to me. Adding bits and pieces afterwards to mitigate doesn't sound good.

I now have a better grasp of the viability of brise vs balcony. Now I need to get a handle on costings before deciding.

Many thanks to all for your input.

[Furnace]

1 minute ago, ProDave said:

The balcony, now it has it's deck on, does indeed shade the living room below.  I now predict in winter we might wish it was not there and might make the room dark.  

You're very honest to admit that - it's exactly one of my concerns. My potential ones are south facing, but I find the grim dark winters bad enough without a dingy space beneath that prevents much needed light entering the room.

[jack]

We have balconies at the back of our house - a full width one outside our bedroom and another outside one of the kids' bedrooms. When I say they are never used, I mean no-one has ever once set foot on them for any reason other than to sweep them. They introduced significant cold bridges we didn't notice until it was too late, and they absorbed a lot of money for something that isn't ever used.

 

There are cases where brise soleil make sense. We really ought to have one above our south-facing slider, for example, as that would cut a huge proportion of the solar gain we get through the summer months. I think for south facing windows, they can do a good job of cutting a lot of the direct sunlight through the middle of summer days. We actually have some of the windows on the south side set back in the the cladding by ~400 mm, and that's actually enought to cut out nearly all of the sun in the middle of the day in summer (the windows are only about 500 mm high, to be fair).

 

But for other windows, especially east and west facing, I think external blinds work a lot better. We have them on west-facing windows and it's quite extraordinary how well they work to keep heat out. No cantilevered brise soleil could have achieved the level of heat-exclusion achieved by the external blinds. You can also have the blinds stay down only when needed - so we don't lower the east-facing blinds at the rear of the house at all in winter. In summer, they come down when it gets dark, feather slightly open at 7 in the morning (so you get light and can see out, but no direct sun), then retract completely in the afternoon.

[Papillon]

I think the balconies look clunky,  expensive and you wouldn’t use them. 
 

Used right solar shades are kind of cool, I think you might have over used them there and the design is clashing with itself. The windows have a very vertical emphasis and the shades are horizontal.

[Furnace]

34 minutes ago, jack said:

I mean no-one has ever once set foot on them for any reason other than to sweep them

😯 And that's rather what I think about balconies

I completely get what you say about West and East windows being very difficult to shade with a brise soleil, balcony or roof overhang. That's why the house design has very limited glazing on those elevations (and the views from them are not inspiring anyway). My main concern is the South facing elevation and I think that's where a brise soleil could work well - probably better than blinds. Of course the difficulty is not knowing beforehand what works from a performance and practicality standpoint.

[Furnace]

25 minutes ago, Papillon said:

I think the balconies look clunky,  expensive and you wouldn’t use them.

That's my thinking, but the partner believes otherwise.....I'm building up my evidence to make the case for eliminating them. Particularly since the non-balcony version of the design is what has been submitted for planning.

 

[jack]

43 minutes ago, Furnace said:

That's my thinking, but the partner believes otherwise.....I'm building up my evidence to make the case for eliminating them. Particularly since the non-balcony version of the design is what has been submitted for planning.

 

There's an old book about designing homes called "A Pattern Language". A lot of it tends to the esoteric and it can be a bit new-age airy-fairy at times, but there're also some useful (and often research-based) observations. One of those is that balconies less than a certain depth (about 6", from memory) will rarely if ever be used.

 

Edited to add: I found this:

 

 

 

One more link:

https://archive.curbed.com/2019/7/11/20686495/pattern-language-christopher-alexander

[Furnace]

 

2 hours ago, jack said:

One of those is that balconies less than a certain depth (about 6", from memory) will rarely if ever be used.

My proposed one was only 3 feet so falls well short. With the potential cold bridging issues and the likely cost, I think my mind is now made up.

Many thanks

[ProDave]

3 hours ago, jack said:

One of those is that balconies less than a certain depth (about 6", from memory) will rarely if ever be used.

Mine is 4M wide and 2M deep.  Now it is up, it seems pretty big, bigger than I expected it to feel.

 

Now, another issue I bet nobody has ever thought about.  We want a couple of chairs out there, but don't want to leave them out all the time.  Hands up everyone that designed in a handy "outdoor furniture cupboard" inside the house very close to the door to the balcony.  Don't all rush at once........

 

Now we are waiting for outside weather.

[saveasteading]

Balconies are nice to have if:

The view is good (or in a city, acceptable).

It provides the only opportunity for a few plants.

Or for

Storing bicycles in undersized flats.

Hanging out the washing.

[ProDave]

Re the cost.  As mine is just about finished I added ut the cost of the parts, and it has come in at about £100 per square metre.  That is aided by a very cheap timber price from a joiner friend who bought a job lot in lockdown and was selling it at cost.

[Furnace]

10 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

Or for

Storing bicycles in undersized flats.

Hanging out the washing.

plus a rusting BBQ....

External blinds or a brise soleil are looking more attractive by the minute

 

[Furnace]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Re the cost.  As mine is just about finished I added ut the cost of the parts, and it has come in at about £100 per square metre.  That is aided by a very cheap timber price from a joiner friend who bought a job lot in lockdown and was selling it at cost.

Not a bad price if it gives you want you want. Does the price include good weather so you can enjoy it?

[Furnace]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

We want a couple of chairs out there

What about those aluminium cafe jobs? And keep some cushions in a handy box by the door? I had envisioned this as my solution
 

Like this:

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Furnace

[ProDave]

We are looking into one of these garden storage boxes to fix up there perhaps.

 

No the price does not include good weather, that's why we are indoors.