Loft beam, can it be removed?

[cloud91]

Hello,

I have a number of wooden items running from side to side in my loft. However, I am unsure if this diagonal beam in the picture attached is doing anything? For context, my very old loft satellite was affixed to it. Now, one side is in the brickwork attached to my neighbours wall and the other side connects to the eaves of my roof.

My question is, can I remove it? What function does it serve? And what about the other wooden pieces in the background, can they be removed? I understand there probably is some level of function. But, the main annoyance is the diaognal beam that is floating mid air across the loft. It has some wobble to it when you lean on it, so it doesn't feel that sturdy.

any advice is highly appreciated!

[George]

Sounds like a job for a structural engineer. 

[joe90]

Looks like diagonal bracing of some sort but difficult to tell from the photo, yes a good builder or SE will give a view.

[cloud91]

Hi,

 

Please see these two further pictures that may help to clarify.

[joe90]

Never seen that before but still say good builder or SE needs to be consulted (IMO) perhaps a builder who does loft conversions 🤷‍♂️

Edited April 19, 2023 by joe90

[cloud91]

The antenna was affixed to it, but it just doesn't make sense to have such a fixture to hold the old style antennas.

[Iceverge]

That's a funny one.

 

If it's secured using a bolt ( unlightly) or some long nails its probably bracing and should be left well enough alone. 

 

 

Perhaps jiggle it up and down gently and see how it interacts with the brick wall. 

 

If it's loose in the brickwork and not attached to any timbers behind it it's almost certainly doing nothing. 

 

 

[cloud91]

It is quite firm in the brickwork, but the beam itself has some level of flex to it. 

 

To give some context, I'm in an end terraced property. The beam that is connected to the brickwork is linked to my neighbours wall and the other side of the beam appears to be connected to the eaves on the side where there is no adjoining home.

 

I would really like to know if it has some function, because it is really annoying to duck underneath. Being bang in the middle means it's a real nuisance.

[cloud91]

I am the end terrace, if its helpful to see the roof externally.

[ProDave]

Can you draw a plan view showing where this diagonal timber is?

 

There is an odd party line where the mid terrace houses get a tiny bit of the front gable end.  Is the timber as it passes through the wall destined to join up with the gable end somehow just the other side of the party wall?

[cloud91]

I have highlighted the diagonal beam of concern.

[cloud91]

  On 19/04/2023 at 20:34, ProDave said:

Can you draw a plan view showing where this diagonal timber is?

 

There is an odd party line where the mid terrace houses get a tiny bit of the front gable end.  Is the timber as it passes through the wall destined to join up with the gable end somehow just the other side of the party wall?

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I am unfamiliar with the technical terms, so my apologies. I hope the above picture helps to answer your question. 

 

The timber in the brick is on my neighbours side and the part in the eaves has no adjoining house. You can see the picture above for the external picture of the roof shape.

[joe90]

Does your neighbour (at the other end of the terrace) have the same in their loft? (I.e. was it built this way or added fir some reason 🤷‍♂️)

Edited April 19, 2023 by joe90

[ProDave]

  On 19/04/2023 at 20:45, cloud91 said:

I have highlighted the diagonal beam of concern.

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I am seeing 2 "gable end" walls.  As the end of the terrace is a hipped roof, then one of those gable ends in the picture is the front gable and the other is a party wall with a neighbours house the other side of it.  I can't figure out which is which.

 

Where the timber goes aparently through the wall is that the party wall to next door?  I am trying to work out what it might be joining to the other side.

 

Hence asking you to draw a plan view showing the roof profile and where this timber is.

[Iceverge]

 

Ok correct me if I am wrong here. That brace connects the purlin at point A at the front of the house to point B at the back of the house which is to the left of the chimney through the party wall in your neighbours attic. 

 

 

It was probably added during construction to prevent the front of the roof from toppling down onto where the hedge is now and to prevent the roof spreading to the right also. 

 

There is another timber acting as a tie above the purlins as shown. This runs from point A horizontally behind the gable in the front of the house, again I imagine to prevent the roof from spreading or to keep the purlin stable during construction. 

 

In summary, the annoying timber crossing your attic lightly did serve a structural purpose during construction. Whether that is still the case or has been superseded by the rest of the house structure is impossible to tell. 

 

Without someone knowledgeable who can actually check it out in person I would leave well enough alone for now. 

 

 

[cloud91]

  On 19/04/2023 at 21:09, ProDave said:

I am seeing 2 "gable end" walls.  As the end of the terrace is a hipped roof, then one of those gable ends in the picture is the front gable and the other is a party wall with a neighbours house the other side of it.  I can't figure out which is which.

 

Where the timber goes aparently through the wall is that the party wall to next door?  I am trying to work out what it might be joining to the other side.

 

Hence asking you to draw a plan view showing the roof profile and where this timber is.

Expand  

Hi,

 

So the left hand side of the picture is in the front of the property. And the wall head on where the remains of the chimney remains are is the wall adjoining to my neighbours home.

[cloud91]

  On 19/04/2023 at 20:59, joe90 said:

Does your neighbour (at the other end of the terrace) have the same in their loft? (I.e. was it built this way or added fir some reason 🤷‍♂️)

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I considered this also and may knock on the door to enquire to find out.

 

I am also curious to see what it may be connected to in my neighbours loft space.

[cloud91]

  On 19/04/2023 at 21:42, Iceverge said:

 

Ok correct me if I am wrong here. That brace connects the purlin at point A at the front of the house to point B at the back of the house which is to the left of the chimney through the party wall in your neighbours attic. 

 

 

It was probably added during construction to prevent the front of the roof from toppling down onto where the hedge is now and to prevent the roof spreading to the right also. 

 

There is another timber acting as a tie above the purlins as shown. This runs from point A horizontally behind the gable in the front of the house, again I imagine to prevent the roof from spreading or to keep the purlin stable during construction. 

 

In summary, the annoying timber crossing your attic lightly did serve a structural purpose during construction. Whether that is still the case or has been superseded by the rest of the house structure is impossible to tell. 

 

Without someone knowledgeable who can actually check it out in person I would leave well enough alone for now. 

 

 

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This seems like a reasonable deduction that it likely served more of a purpose during construction. Although, why did they leave it in. Was it simply a handy place to affix the aerial or was there more to it. 

 

I have shown it to one builder who didn't think that it served much purpose. But, he wasn't 100% what it's actual function was, so we left it in. 

[Iceverge]

You could probably just get your handsaw and hack it out........ probably. 

 

Please let us know what happens.............

 

 

[saveasteading]

No don't touch it.

 

It looks to me like diagonal bracing to stiffen the building. That would imply retrofit because something was moving. 

Laid flat-ways it can only work in tension which implies the same.

And it ends on the line of the big timber beam, so nodes are lining up and that again says it is needed for triangulation.

Imagining the photos without it, it all looks very sparse and unstable.

 

So I would not touch it now. A Structural Engineer might say it can go, or that it can be replaced by something tidier.

Better that fee than the house failing and insurances void for messing with it. Or continue to duck.

 

In fact. with it being a strange timber, I would be inclined to put a sign on it saying 'this timber is structural , do not cut or remove'.

[Gus Potter]

  On 19/04/2023 at 22:23, saveasteading said:

No don't touch it.

 

It looks to me like diagonal bracing to stiffen the building. That would imply retrofit because something was moving. 

Laid flat-ways it can only work in tension which implies the same.

And it ends on the line of the big timber beam, so nodes are lining up and that again says it is needed for triangulation.

Imagining the photos without it, it all looks very sparse and unstable.

 

So I would not touch it now. A Structural Engineer might say it can go, or that it can be replaced by something tidier.

Better that fee than the house failing and insurances void for messing with it. Or continue to duck.

 

In fact. with it being a strange timber, I would be inclined to put a sign on it saying 'this timber is structural , do not cut or remove'.

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Very good advise given here from @saveasteading