Potential single-storey self build in SE

[Bournbrook]

Hi there

 

I have been trawling through this forum for a while and decided now is the time to actually post and introduce myself!

 

we are a young family looking to build in our back garden and sell the main house. The idea is to live more sustainably and significantly reduce our mortgage. 
 

our neighbours have done exactly the same as we are looking to do about 15 years ago and managed to build a bungalow of about 140sqm. They have a ridge height of 5.7m, so I’m guessing we wouldn’t be able to go above that, but we are going to preplanning shortly to give us an idea of what we could build. 
 

I just had a few questions for all you experienced people that would be useful to know. 
 

- with a ridge height of 5.7, would it be possible to get any rooms upstairs or even a mezzanine to give us a little more floor space. I understand it depends on the pitch, but as a general rule wound this be possible (even though not a very cost effective way of getting useable space). We live in the SE in Home Counties. 
 

- we would like to build a home that is cheap to run, so following passivhaus principles. We have booked to see some architects  that have done this type of new build before, but we just wondered if our budget was realistic. We have about 400-450k for everything (including architects fees), but both work full time and have 2 small kids so couldn’t really do much ourselves. We’d like to use prefab to reduce time (as we’d need bridging loan), timber clad, and energy efficient. I know it’s vague, but that’s all I have!!

 

- what’s the best single piece of advice you have (for those that have done this or part way through)?

 

Thanks so much all and I hope to share more specifics with you as our journey progresses (hopefully). 

K

[JamesP]

Just a quick answer, yes for rooms above the ground floor with vaulted ceilings. Our eaves height was 4 metres and ridge height 6 metres.

Obviously no loft space but bright bedrooms with gable end windows and Velux.

Others will be along with help.

 

[Bournbrook]

Hi James. If you happen to have any photos I’d really appreciate it!! I can’t find anything about this anywhere online to visualise. 
Thanks for your reply. 
k

[JamesP]

The footprint of the bedroom block is 12 metres x 7 metres, we put 2 bedrooms and and 2 bathrooms upstairs.

I will send some finished external photos later.

 

have a quick look here 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by JamesP

[Thorfun]

welcome! have you considered a contemporary flat-ish type roof? means you don't get the reduced head height in the eaves maybe? 

 

spend the time going through magazines/websites/pintrest etc and find houses you like the look of before you visit the architects. you might be surprised by what you like! then check the portfolio of the architects to see if they've done anything similar. there are a few threads on here about making a list of requirements for an architect.

 

If you've no time to do any work yourselves then a turnkey build will cost you around £2500 - £3000 /m2. so with your budget you can work backwards from that and get the size of house you can afford. sadly in the SE we get stung stupidly on costs so everything is much more expensive to build.

 

good luck! exciting times and we look forward to hearing about your progress.

[Bournbrook]

11 hours ago, Thorfun said:

welcome! have you considered a contemporary flat-ish type roof? means you don't get the reduced head height in the eaves maybe? 

 

spend the time going through magazines/websites/pintrest etc and find houses you like the look of before you visit the architects. you might be surprised by what you like! then check the portfolio of the architects to see if they've done anything similar. there are a few threads on here about making a list of requirements for an architect.

 

If you've no time to do any work yourselves then a turnkey build will cost you around £2500 - £3000 /m2. so with your budget you can work backwards from that and get the size of house you can afford. sadly in the SE we get stung stupidly on costs so everything is much more expensive to build.

 

good luck! exciting times and we look forward to hearing about your progress.

Thanks so much for this. 
 

I was working on around £3000/m2 but I didn’t know if things had gone up a bit and that was now unrealistic?! Out of interest, is that cost for internal floor space or external footprint? Do integral garages count too?

 

re: flat roof. We’ve considered it but I just don’t think the planners would go for it! We are in a village with lots of nimbys and I think a high flat roof would be too imposing as it’s backland development.  
 

thanks again 

[Kelvin]

Internal floor space. £3000/m² is a very healthy budget so with a nice simple design some careful buying, and negotiate well you should manage it for less than that. 

[Andehh]

I would tread carefully on that £3000psqm, depending on location I would not get to comfy with it, especially if going for a high spec /passive house standards. 

 

VAT needs considering, and extensions can reveal hidden costs. Materials, labour etc are also still high. 

 

It's a good starting point to consider though. 

[Mattg4321]

Use a good planning consultant if you think gaining permission could be awkward. It usually is, especially with back garden builds. I know because I have done it! Neighbours will possibly kick up over it. 
 

Whereabouts in SE?

[Bournbrook]

11 minutes ago, Mattg4321 said:

Use a good planning consultant if you think gaining permission could be awkward. It usually is, especially with back garden builds. I know because I have done it! Neighbours will possibly kick up over it. 
 

Whereabouts in SE?

Yes we are prepared for this!! I have reviewed all planning policies and looked at all planning applications for similar in our area. They all seem to be rejected first and then won on appeal. 
 

where are you?

 

if you don’t mind me asking, how much was a planning consultant?

 

thanks 

[Bournbrook]

Just now, Katie AG said:

Yes we are prepared for this!! I have reviewed all planning policies and looked at all planning applications for similar in our area. They all seem to be rejected first and then won on appeal. 
 

where are you?

 

if you don’t mind me asking, how much was a planning consultant?

 

thanks 

East Hants 

[Mattg4321]

Not too far away from you in West Sussex (albeit on the border with East Sussex). 
 

We used Peter Ranier at DMH Stallard, although regrettably not until the appeal stage. I think we would’ve had permission much sooner if we had. His team demolished the planners arguments against our application. There’s no other word for it. I think it was about a 40 page dossier with no stone left unturned. Cost was about £3-£5k, 5 years ago I think. Not sure what the cost would be if used from the outset. No harm in asking, although I’m not sure what area these guys cover. 

 

He and his team have represented Brighton & Hove Albion a few times I think (with some extremely contentious applications). Anyone whose services are employed by Tony Bloom is very unlikely to be poor at what they do!

[Nickfromwales]

6 hours ago, Andehh said:

VAT needs considering, and extensions can reveal hidden costs. Materials, labour etc are also still high. 

It's a new build, so zero VAT?

[Bournbrook]

6 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

It's a new build, so zero VAT?

Would still need to pay upfront and reclaim, no?

[Andehh]

Apologies!! Should have read the thread better, I thought it was an extension being discussed. 

 

In which case ignore my previous post... £3k is a very reasonable assumption, and VAT no issue with new build on vast majority of stuff.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Andehh

[Bournbrook]

9 hours ago, Mattg4321 said:

Not too far away from you in West Sussex (albeit on the border with East Sussex). 
 

We used Peter Ranier at DMH Stallard, although regrettably not until the appeal stage. I think we would’ve had permission much sooner if we had. His team demolished the planners arguments against our application. There’s no other word for it. I think it was about a 40 page dossier with no stone left unturned. Cost was about £3-£5k, 5 years ago I think. Not sure what the cost would be if used from the outset. No harm in asking, although I’m not sure what area these guys cover. 

 

He and his team have represented Brighton & Hove Albion a few times I think (with some extremely contentious applications). Anyone whose services are employed by Tony Bloom is very unlikely to be poor at what they do!

Thanks for this. To be honest I’ve already written over 5000 words myself as I’ve geeked up a bit on planning rules and previous applications. I’m sure they can do a much better job than I can however, I’d at least like to give it a bash! I’m going to send in some preplanning plans I’ve drawn up and test the waters. We are in no rush. 
 

any info on major hurdles you faced and counter arguments greatly appreciated!

[Thorfun]

10 minutes ago, Katie AG said:

Would still need to pay upfront and reclaim, no?

Only if you buy yourself. Anything your builder buys will be zero rated for you. If your builder charges you VAT you can’t reclaim it!

[Mattg4321]

48 minutes ago, Katie AG said:

Thanks for this. To be honest I’ve already written over 5000 words myself as I’ve geeked up a bit on planning rules and previous applications. I’m sure they can do a much better job than I can however, I’d at least like to give it a bash! I’m going to send in some preplanning plans I’ve drawn up and test the waters. We are in no rush. 
 

any info on major hurdles you faced and counter arguments greatly appreciated!

Try and get the neighbours onside. May not be possible, but will be a huge help. If someone kicks up a stink and puts pressure on the planners and/or gets a local councillor to call it in to committee it makes things much more difficult. 
 

Have a look at national and local planning framework - neighbourhood plans etc and try to comply with them. 
 

Focus on sustainability and being environmentally friendly. 

[Thorfun]

Surely the neighbours building in their garden has set a precedent? Should be a massive argument for approval right there. 

[PeterW]

If you can dig down a metre, then you can get a semi basement and gain the extra height. Also look at a celestory ridge line to throw more light into the centre of the build and reduce solar gain.

 

 

[Mattg4321]

18 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

Surely the neighbours building in their garden has set a precedent? Should be a massive argument for approval right there. 

I had a similar situation. Both sides had already done the same thing. An obvious plot. 
 

One pollock neighbour in one of the ‘new builds’ (by now a couple of decades old) kicked off and got his mate the councillor to call it into committee. Said councillor had his councillor mates refuse it. Didn’t even give a reason at the meeting. Said one would be provided at a later date by the planning officer. Same planning officer had already recommended it for approval, but then had to make an argument against it to the planning inspectorate at appeal. 
 

Pillock neighbour is lucky his house didn’t mysteriously catch fire. 

[Bournbrook]

1 hour ago, Thorfun said:

Surely the neighbours building in their garden has set a precedent? Should be a massive argument for approval right there. 

Yes and no. Apparently precedent means nothing in planning. I guess it counts for something though. In all fairness we wouldn’t even have considered it if it wasn’t for that! 
 

I think the big argument will be ‘overdevelopment’ , but we are within a defined settlement boundary which is listed as an area for development on the local plan and if we can go down the environmental route I think we may have chance. Don’t want to overpromise though in case it blows the budget, so it’s a fine line!

 

we get on really well with our neighbours and they’ve both done big extensions (and obviously one has built a bungalow) so hoping they are ok with it. Will wait until after preplanning meeting before we mention anything. 

[Jilly]

Be careful with a bridging loan, builds can get delays and the interest payments could waste your budget.

[Bournbrook]

2 hours ago, Jilly said:

Be careful with a bridging loan, builds can get delays and the interest payments could waste your budget.

Yes definitely. Very worried about this so have posted on the finance thread to see if anyone has any advice on better finance methods!

[Bournbrook]

10 hours ago, PeterW said:

If you can dig down a metre, then you can get a semi basement and gain the extra height. Also look at a celestory ridge line to throw more light into the centre of the build and reduce solar gain.

 

 

Thanks Peter. Hadn’t considered that for the roof. Good idea. 
 

isn’t ridge height measured from ground floor level? So even if we dug down a bit the ridge height would still be set? I imagine there may be wiggle room with planners though if this was explained. 
 

I imagine though having a semi basement adds on quite a bit of cost??