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Difficult planning application for loft conversion


Ernie

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Just wondering if anyone has any pearls of wisdom with loft planning applications as mine is turning into a bit of an ordeal. 

 

Our house is end of terrace in London. The house needs lots of work including a new roof. My wife and I decided to go for L-shaped dormer that is over permitted development size to get 2 extra rooms. This is the first time we have done any sort project like this so we are certainly naive when it comes to planning applications etc…

 

The architect we went with recommended doing the main section of the loft under permitted development and applying for planning permission for the rear section. 

 

Getting the certificate for lawful development for the permitted development was without issues but the planning permission has been another story. 

 

We submitted plans start of November and only received communication from the planning officer in March stating she was going to refuse the application because we are in conservations area, which is incorrect. 

 

After correcting her she said the plans were fine and she would grant permission.  3 weeks later she changed her mind and she has said it was in fact too big, so we would have to amend the plans if we are to be successful. She also said that she needs to assess the plans in conjunction with those submitted under permitted development which I don’t know if correct or not. 

 

We have sent the amended plans but no idea how long it will take for these to be assessed.

 

The planning officer doesn’t fill me with much hope with how far behind deadlines she is and that she is always quoting from the wrong sections of guidance and generally doesn’t seem to have much idea about this type of application.

We feel let down by our architect as in hindsight the initial design wasn’t appropriate and they don’t seem to have much to offer now things aren’t going well.

To top it off we have received 3 objections which means we need to go to committee unless someone has commented twice.

 

 

The options I am looking at are: 

  • keep calm and carry on
  • withdraw the application and just do a smaller loft conversion which will be a shame as the roof needs a lot of work and the extra room will be useful
  • Withdraw and re-submit with a more capable architect and hopefully get assigned a better officer

Thanks for any advice

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Welcome to the forum.

 

Have you got a drawing of what it will look like when all done. Would the dormer needing PP overlook neighbours? Has anyone done similar in your area?

 

Many of us have our own horror stories regarding planning permission. I'm tempted to say keep calm and carry on. Wait until you get a decision. If its declined then perhaps have a rethink. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Temp said:

Welcome to the forum.

 

Have you got a drawing of what it will look like when all done. Would the dormer needing PP overlook neighbours? Has anyone done similar in your area?

 

Many of us have our own horror stories regarding planning permission. I'm tempted to say keep calm and carry on. Wait until you get a decision. If its declined then perhaps have a rethink. 

 

 

 

 

I agree. You gain nothing by withdrawing. Just wait. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 31/03/2023 at 19:06, Temp said:

Welcome to the forum.

 

Have you got a drawing of what it will look like when all done. Would the dormer needing PP overlook neighbours? Has anyone done similar in your area?

 

Many of us have our own horror stories regarding planning permission. I'm tempted to say keep calm and carry on. Wait until you get a decision. If its declined then perhaps have a rethink. 

 

 

 

 

 

A few immediate neighbours have main dormers but no outriggers, but there are a few in the vicinity. However my road has a great variety of housing periods and is not a conservation area.

 

I have attached the amended plans which show the outrigger is not even 12sqm, anyway we will wait and see. 

Screenshot 2023-04-07 at 18.10.12.png

Screenshot 2023-04-08 at 22.42.24.png

Screenshot 2023-04-07 at 18.10.48.png

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  • 1 month later...

And so the saga continues. Minimal communication from the planning officer and impossible to get hold of. We have had one email stating that she is not able to understand the orientation of the house on the plans which must be an absolutely basic skill of a planning  officer??

 

Much to my surprise yesterday morning she turns up on my doorstep unexpectedly. She was convinced that she had arranged an appointment with us. It turns out she intended to visit one of our neighbours objecting (which I also find unusual). My suspicions that she is seriously disorganised and disoriented and frankly not up to her job are confirmed.

I insisted she view the site and hopefully she will finally be able to make a decision about plans after 6 months of waiting.

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@Ernie Im afraid many planning departments have suffered massive cuts over the last 20 years. When we started there were several planning officers, two conservation officers, a tree man etc. Now you get a planning officer that works part time. In some cases they share their time with another council. The only way they can approve enough new houses is to allow one or two big developers to build on a green field site. They don't have the resources to process hundreds of applications for one or two houses. When something like a massive industrial development comes along they have to rely on local action groups to pay for landscape expert witnesses.

 

 

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Well that doesn't look too bad at all. It can be chaotic with planners at the moment. The planning officer for our plot in Lincolnshire lives in Devon and works from home using photo's of the site taken by admin staff. All you can do is push a little harder, not in a mean way but make contact by email at least once a week now she's done her site inspection. Ask when she expects to write her report, ask if it will be an officer decision or will it go to committee. You have to be visible I'm afraid or you'll go to the bottom of the pile. Gentle encouragement may just work to get you off her list of jobs.

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Thank you for the replies. I have had the following reply from planning officer after asking for a decision date;

 

Thanks for your email

I am requesting an elevation drawing showing the view from N05 D Road .Can this infor reach me Monday 22/5/2023 end of day.

 

Kind regards

 

For context we are number 1 end of terrace row. Number 5 (2 doors down) have objected stating it will affect their light.

 

Any advice on how to respond? I feel this is not a reasonable request of us and that the officer needs to make their own determination and is merely trying string the process along.

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I would try to do what you can to comply with the request. If you cannot comply by the deadline, explain that you need an extra few days and ask them to delay the decision until you’ve had the opportunity to comply.

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Surely the only part No. 5 would see is the small section of dormer flank that rises above the party wall that separates your and No. 3A's outrigger and even part of that is hidden by the existing chimney stack. The elevation drawing is going to be minimal so try to provide it. Dimension the additional height and emphasise the distance from the windows in No 5. If you can, I would use the proposed rear elevation and add the position of No. 5's windows in their outrigger and project a line upwards to try and show the impact of your dormer is minimal (assuming it is, if not then stay quiet). Hopefully your architect can respond quickly.

 

It's the usual approach from planners these days. You wait forever for a response then suddenly they must have the additional information within a few days............. nevertheless get it done to oil the wheels and remove any excuse to refuse.

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Once again thanks for the replies. 
 

Yes I agree I think number 5 will struggle to even see much of the loft conversion and I don’t think they are being reasonable in objecting. But as I’ve come to realise planning applications bring out the worst in your neighbours. Unfortunately I don’t have much hope in the planning officer being objective in her assessment given my past interactions with her.

 

My architect has sent the drawings let’s hope it is the final tick box.

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Chin up! She will have to write a report and make a recommendation. This gets passed to a manager to assess before the decision is signed off. A more experienced eye may take a more pragmatic view of things.

 

Furthermore, often, when presented with a specific complaint by a neighbour, parish council or other body the planners will ask for the additional information just to prove after an approval that they had taken those issues seriously. Some cynics may describe that as "covering one's a......." but it happens.

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Yes hopefully just some arse covering. The planning officers reply to  my emails really makes me wonder if we will ever see a final report 🤯


 

Hope you are well received drawings and will try and deal with soon. I am so sorry for the wait , a report is already in the box I only need to tweaking. I am of the mind of approval.  

Kind regards

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Well it's good news, the planning application is now showing as granted on the planning portal. I really didn't think we would get it over the line but so happy it's done. All the amended plans and final report haven't been uploaded yet but I'm assuming this decision notice should be final. Now on to the business of sorting out the party wall agreement with my neighbours who objected 🥴

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4 minutes ago, Ernie said:

Well it's good news, the planning application is now showing as granted on the planning portal. I really didn't think we would get it over the line but so happy it's done. All the amended plans and final report haven't been uploaded yet but I'm assuming this decision notice should be final. Now on to the business of sorting out the party wall agreement with my neighbours who objected 🥴

Congratulations!  I would wait a bit before raising it with the neighbours. Wait until all documents are online, and you’ve been formally notified. But you could start the process of appointing a PW surveyor in the meantime.

Edited by Adsibob
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