Move steel column to be flush with wall?

[Dabooj80]

Hi,

I have an extension at the rear of my house which requires a steel column that will stick out in the living room once finished.
The column width is 152mm and the structural plan shows this steel column and a solid pier column together, which sticks out quite alot.
I wanted to try and minimise the amount these columns stick out so I was wondering:

 

1) whether the steel column can be embedded into the outer wall? I.e. outer wall brick layer remains the same but embed the steel into the inner breeze block section so it only sticks out a bit or is flush with the wall?

 

2) if there is a steel column supporting the steel beam, why is there a need for a solid masonry column/pier which adds to the column width sticking out?

 

Please see attached pictures of streel column/beams design. The column in question is C1 which is supporting Beam B5. I've also included a picture of what I would like the design to be but need advice if we can move the steel column to be flush and get rid of the solid masonry column.

 

Thanks

[Mr Punter]

You need to bat this back to the engineer.  What you have suggested is rather close to the edge of the pad foundation.

[nod]

Beat me to the punch

I suspect mr Ps answer is what you will get from your SE 

This is pretty common on commercial buildings With some boing as the SE has shown Or add a stud wall to bring them flush 

[ETC]

It should be possible. Speak to your SE about an alternative solution - which may mean more reinforcement in the pad foundation and a larger beam. The masonry is probably just there to conceal the UB and if you’re happy with the UB exposed you just need to paint it to get the FR.

[johnhenstock83]

1. the columns are required because it looks like you're trying to remove the entire wall. while forces from above could be held by a horizontal beam, you must think about lateral forces as well.

 

2. the beam would ideally sit in the middle of the pad foundation. you can move it to the sides, but it would require a much larger foundation, to allow for eccentric loads.

 

3. not advisable to place the beam inside the cavity wall, it could lead to thermal bridging.

[ETC]

7 hours ago, johnhenstock83 said:

1. the columns are required because it looks like you're trying to remove the entire wall. while forces from above could be held by a horizontal beam, you must think about lateral forces as well.

 

2. the beam would ideally sit in the middle of the pad foundation. you can move it to the sides, but it would require a much larger foundation, to allow for eccentric loads.

 

3. not advisable to place the beam inside the cavity wall, it could lead to thermal bridging.

Looks like a picture frame to me - and the stanchion can be placed into the cavity as long as there is a minimum 40mm gap between the outside face of the stanchion and the inside face of the external leaf. As others have said it is a potential thermal bridge and it is always better to have the stanchion within the warm space.

 

As most others have said moving the stanchion back will affect the design of the pad foundation - not impossible to do but difficult and will cost more.

 

Personally I don’t see the issue with the stanchion projecting into the room - but that’s just personal taste.

[NandM]

With regard to the thermal bridging, I have one column (C2) that sits 100mm into a 200mm cavity, which will have blown-in cellulose. I'm assuming/hoping this would reduce the effect of a thermal bridge somewhat? 

 

The kitchen floor units run down this wall and at that space there will either be a floor unit or a pull-out larder.

 

(Would air tightness also become an issue? If so, would using air tightness paint and wet plaster help remedy that?)

[NandM]

I just had a look at my kitchen planner: if I keep the current length, then there will be a drawer unit there. If I reduce by 1m (cost saving), then it will be a free standing fridge. 

 

I could bring the column in to the thermal envelope and either reduce the drawer size by x cm or bring the fridge out by the same. I think this would probably be the better solution.??