Homewood Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Hello all. I would love some of your knowledgable advice on current price per square metre. I started a self build project before lockdown and put it on hold. Price then was 1700 now gone up to 2500 psqm which blows my budget out the water. 😠we own the land, it has services as my dad lives in a little wooden hut there. All architects fees etc already paid. It’s in south east clay soils woodland so I expect will need piling foundations. It’s two level 216 square metre build. Timber frame with half timer half brick clad. Need to get it to SAP 88 for an ecology mortgage. So I’m now looking at getting it to watertight or first fix then in for the long haul doing bits ourself. Husband is electrician so can do all those bits. Will have air source heat pump. guys help me out here… what am I looking at for price square metre to get it to first fix or is my dream about to go down the toilet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 lose the timber frame and cladding and go traditional brick/block will save min £300m2, pay an SE to give you a foundation spec that can be priced. Have your plans QS'd to see the actual material costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homewood Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 13 minutes ago, Dave Jones said: lose the timber frame and cladding and go traditional brick/block will save min £300m2, pay an SE to give you a foundation spec that can be priced. Have your plans QS'd to see the actual material costs.  Thank you. That’s interesting as the architect reckoned it would be actually cheaper to go TF as would cut down on masonry labour costs. Original design was block and brick. TF quote came back as £56k erected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 56k will buy an awful lot of brickwork. Golden rule to remember 99% of architects are clueless on how to build anything. They are good at milking clients though. For example look at any of the window openings your architect has drawn and i guarantee you none of them will work brick. If they had a clue how to build anything they would design them to be built. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eandg Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 Sounds very similar to our build (piled foundation, not far off on size etc) - with a fair bit of DIY (internal joinery, sheeting, electrics) and a reasonable internal fit I think we'll be about £1450-1500m2. If you act as QS you'll come in a fair bit cheaper than estimates based on book prices and lazy contractors picking up materials from the local merchant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homewood Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 36 minutes ago, eandg said: Sounds very similar to our build (piled foundation, not far off on size etc) - with a fair bit of DIY (internal joinery, sheeting, electrics) and a reasonable internal fit I think we'll be about £1450-1500m2. If you act as QS you'll come in a fair bit cheaper than estimates based on book prices and lazy contractors picking up materials from the local merchant.  thank you. This has cheered me up no end…. Really needed to read that. Ours will be low spec as we will just have to add and modify over the years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post and beam Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 3 hours ago, Homewood said: TF quote came back as £56k erected  3 hours ago, Homewood said: It’s two level 216 square metre build  I wish. Our TF 201 SQ/ M, storey and a half, dormered, quote is £130k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homewood Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 13 hours ago, Post and beam said:   I wish. Our TF 201 SQ/ M, storey and a half, dormered, quote is £130k Oh wow. I wonder why such a huge difference in cost? Now I’m wondering if I’ve read the quote wrong 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenki Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 15 hours ago, eandg said:  lazy contractors picking up materials from the local merchant. Always makes me laugh that customers think builders should spend hours of thier own time for free, making a project cheaper for them.  2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IATM Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 I have to say I am fairly baffled at how disjointed the whole industry is of building. I remember 10 years ago looking at the idea of building a house and it was nothing short of a nightmare on how disjointed the professionals are and how unknown it can be with even known basic trades.  My experience is architects know next to know nothing about building and are only technical people, sometimes they are not even good at exterior or interior design, their knowhow seems to be a very narrow field of information. You then have builders who are maybe good at following instructions if you are lucky and now days we generally have the involvement of a QS who has no idea what a build should have so throws everything at all. I still cant tell if a build should be 1k a sqM or 3k a sqm  The whole process from start to finish is painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 26 minutes ago, Homewood said: Oh wow. I wonder why such a huge difference in cost? Now I’m wondering if I’ve read the quote wrong 😳 What does yours include? I suspect his includes all windows and external doors? You can’t compare them until you know what’s included, the spec (3G or 2G) etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 35 minutes ago, IATM said: I have to say I am fairly baffled at how disjointed the whole industry is of building. I remember 10 years ago looking at the idea of building a house and it was nothing short of a nightmare on how disjointed the professionals are and how unknown it can be with even known basic trades.  My experience is architects know next to know nothing about building and are only technical people, sometimes they are not even good at exterior or interior design, their knowhow seems to be a very narrow field of information. You then have builders who are maybe good at following instructions if you are lucky and now days we generally have the involvement of a QS who has no idea what a build should have so throws everything at all. I still cant tell if a build should be 1k a sqM or 3k a sqm  The whole process from start to finish is painful.  you need to get your plans properly QS'd, estimators.com are pretty reasonable. email them your plans and elevations you will get back a price down to every last nail. It wont have foundations or steelwork unless you supply the SE spec as well but you will have a guide on what it will actually cost to then discuss with a builder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eandg Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 39 minutes ago, Jenki said: Always makes me laugh that customers think builders should spend hours of thier own time for free, making a project cheaper for them.  Not meant as a criticism - we all know why builders would do that. Point is there's absolutely zero incentive for trades to cut material costs so don't leave it to them, organise yourself and you'll save a lot for not a lot of effort. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenki Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 4 hours ago, eandg said: Not meant as a criticism - we all know why builders would do that. Point is there's absolutely zero incentive for trades to cut material costs so don't leave it to them, organise yourself and you'll save a lot for not a lot of effort. Very true. It's a difficult task on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homewood Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 7 hours ago, eandg said: Not meant as a criticism - we all know why builders would do that. Point is there's absolutely zero incentive for trades to cut material costs so don't leave it to them, organise yourself and you'll save a lot for not a lot of effort.  in your experience (and I appreciate we live in different areas) what were the materials that made the biggest difference sourcing yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eandg Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Homewood said:  in your experience (and I appreciate we live in different areas) what were the materials that made the biggest difference sourcing yourself? I've largely separated materials and labour so difficult to compare, though we sarked a roof for the cost of materials (c.£700) compared to a quote of over 4k for supply and fit. So far I've shopped about between online and physical merchants and found fair savings by doing so, whereas your trades will just go to their easiest/nearest merchant and they have no incentive to haggle. Quick example is plumbing and bathroom materials - if you're none the wiser your trades might just charge you book price (and take their trade account savings and put it in their pocket) but a quick chat with a plumbing merchant and he's taking 40% off book as a starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 On 17/02/2023 at 09:16, eandg said: Not meant as a criticism - we all know why builders would do that. Point is there's absolutely zero incentive for trades to cut material costs so don't leave it to them, organise yourself and you'll save a lot for not a lot of effort. That's exactly the way to do it. Saved me at least 800-900£/sqm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 On 17/02/2023 at 16:37, Homewood said:  in your experience (and I appreciate we live in different areas) what were the materials that made the biggest difference sourcing yourself? Just chipping in without being asked... But bathrooms and kitchen was a saving of somewhere in the region of 10£k-15£k .... And I gotten lazy by the time we ordered kitchen ...could have saved another 3-4£k if I did my kitchen research earlier and had spend more time on it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, Patrick said: Just chipping in without being asked... But bathrooms and kitchen was a saving of somewhere in the region of 10£k-15£k .... And I gotten lazy by the time we ordered kitchen ...could have saved another 3-4£k if I did my kitchen research earlier and had spend more time on it . Agreed on this. We’ve  over paid a bit on the kitchen albeit about half the cost is appliances and the island worktop. We got a quote for the bathroom furniture and sanitary ware from a single supplier and it was twice the price compared to me buying the different elements from the cheapest sources I could find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homewood Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 Thank you all. Think this is going to be the only way we will be able to proceed - I work full time self employed so it’s going to be stressful 🤪 would love the money to just hand it over to a contractor and say go for it but it is what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eandg Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Homewood said: Thank you all. Think this is going to be the only way we will be able to proceed - I work full time self employed so it’s going to be stressful 🤪 would love the money to just hand it over to a contractor and say go for it but it is what it is Do as much of the planning and costing early on (pre-build if you can) - I also work in a busy F/T job and have a young family, which doesn't leave enough time for project management, particularly as DIYing a lot of it too. Having mostly done my homework and had suppliers and trades lined up in advance makes it much easier - would be even further behind and out of pocket had I not been. Edited February 19, 2023 by eandg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homewood Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 1 minute ago, eandg said: Do as much of the planning and costing early on (pre-build if you can) - I also work in a busy F/T job and have a young family, which doesn't leave enough time for project management, particularly as DIYing a lot of it too. Having mostly done my homework and had suppliers and trades lined up in advance makes it much easier - would be even further behind and out of pocket had I not been.  already on it… have had the toddler on site clearing the ground today 😂. We are still waiting on bat surveys so I’m trying to see that as a positive for more time to cost/plan. My friend in a similar position has just had her builders come back today increasing the cost from 1500 m3 to 2000 m3 and they're DIY’ing loads of it. Scary at the moment. Not sure how much building materials can keep going up?!!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shire2020 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 We’ve recently finished a reasonably sized extension and the process is scary how everything has gone up. I can’t definitively relate to the comments about kitchens and bathrooms, we haggled less as it went on as we just wanted it finished and the builders gone. Hard work but we’re delighted with the space, but need to work hard to recoup some money elsewhere in life for furniture and landscaping! Good Luck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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