Onoff Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Just some silly thinking about what goes in a Sunamp and how "clever" it really is. Right I've found 25kg of sodium acetate trihydrate for £50. What else do I need? Plate heat exchanger (£70/35kW), old mini fridge case to put it in and some Celotex to wrap it in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Finish the bathroom first. Please. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 I looked into this a few years ago; I have a feeling there's a thread on either ebuild or the GBF about it. The challenges with using phase change materials are not that easy to solve. The first is the way in which you initiate the phase change, in order to get the heat back out. Hand warmers use a small nucleating device, a clicker disc usually, that provides the trigger to start crystallisation and the release of heat. You need to be able to devise a way to make the phase change stop and start when required. I put a fair bit of thought into it, and couldn't come up with a way to reliably control the phase change, and I suspect that this is one of the key things that Sunamp managed to do when they developed the heat battery packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, JSHarris said: I put a fair bit of thought into it, and couldn't come up with a way to reliably control the phase change, and I suspect that this is one of the key things that Sunamp managed to do when they developed the heat battery packs. @Onoff Have a look through the Sunamp patents and see how they initiate it then try and work out another way that does not infringe their patent, I guess they will have done a good job on their patents (HERE ARE A FEW) so you will be able to spend many happy hours playing with ideas while relaxing in the bath JUST AS SOON AS YOU HAVE FINISHED IT as Peter says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Do you have to worry about copyright if it's one off and not for demo / sale / reproduction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Do you have to worry about copyright if it's one off and not for demo / sale / reproduction? Technically yes they can (WTO stuff but essentially article 28 of TRIPS HERE). Naturally if you kept it quiet (not sure @Onoff is naturally inclined this way) you would probably get away with it as nobody would know would they but the fact that you looked up the patent would be traceable and, if they were a big pharma with lots to loose they would be keeping a beedy eye on you even as far away as Swansea and North Kent West is much closer! Edited July 16, 2017 by MikeSharp01 Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 Trust me, the day I run my car / boiler on water I won't say a word, I've read Ben Elton's book! How about using another less efficient heat store medium but twice the size if space isn't an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Onoff said: Trust me, the day I run my car / boiler on water I won't say a word, I've read Ben Elton's book! How about using another less efficient heat store medium but twice the size if space isn't an issue? I was looking at 6 or 8 oil barrels as a thermal store, built into the ( not quite ) 1000mm gap between my shed and next doors garage. Insulated deck and then bury them in a vermiculite / similar coffin. These to be heated off DIY solar thermal and boosted every time I light my chimnea, ( converted to act as a boiler ). More because I can than anything, with a PHE to provide DHW uplift for my combi boiler. 2026 trials sounds about right. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 I think that one option discussed on that old thread elsewhere, years ago, was to use paraffin wax in a large, well-insulated, buried tank. Another option was to bury an insulated milk tanker tank. The idea was to use solar thermal panels to heat the heat store up. I can't remember the numbers now, but have a feeling that they came close to storing enough heat to last through the winter. One idea was to use the big heat store as the input for a liquid source heat pump, so that DHW could be delivered even when the tank contents got down to 20 deg C or so. Heat pumps only really have a temperature differential problem, when it comes to efficiently delivering high temperature, so if you can increase the source temperature you can also increase the output temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 Big box of CHEAP sand? Sharp? Silver? Seems desert sand has particular qualities. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160104164852.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) I am crestfallen. I thought "Home Brew" was Beer. Edited July 16, 2017 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 16, 2017 Author Share Posted July 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: I am crestfallen. I thought "Home Brew" was Beer. No reason why you couldn't tap off some heat to aid gentle fermentation! Or build in a demijohn holder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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