You'll do it in the workshop, but you won't do it at home

[MDC]

It seems a number of people on here use infrared heating in their workshops, but not in their homes. 

 

Many years ago, we had a large woodwork shop, canteen and office in a 1950's single skinned block built structure. We put in a false ceiling throughout and heated the whole thing we've infrared heaters at the top of the walls. These heaters were excellent. The thermal insulation was worse than the garage.

 

Indeed, if I want to sit outside the pub, I am warmed by an infrared heater when the evenings are cold.

 

Over the years things have progressed and I see companies advertise very sleek infrared radiators/UFH as an alternative to ASHP. The advantage is said to be in the installation ease and costs even though ASHP is said to have a better performance output, which may or may not be worth having depending on insulation. 

 

I imagine people don't [though they might] use ASHP in a workshop situation because of naff insulation, so they might use and seem to do use infrared heating. 

 

My question is, why in the workshop and why not in the house?

 

Why isn't infrared a viable alternative in a well insulated timber frame new build, when it is viable in an uninsulated timber shed? 

 

 

[billt]

15 minutes ago, MDC said:

Indeed, if I want to sit outside the pub, I am warmed by an infrared heater when the evenings are cold.

 

But it will be like the old days of one coal fire in a draughty house, you roast on one side and freeze on the other.

 

IR heaters are used in workshops because the heating is used intermittently and locally so a low capital cost heater is adequate. A heat pump system won't work efficiently in intermittent applications - although mini-splits might be OK.

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, MDC said:

Why isn't infrared a viable alternative in a well insulated timber frame new build, when it is viable in an uninsulated timber shed

Physics explains it all.

 

[MDC]

10 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Physics explains it all.

 

Is this your final answer?

[Pocster]

The title of this thread is mis leading - I had to delete my original post .

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, MDC said:

Is this your final answer?

No

[TonyT]

The salesmen are too busy selling voltage optimisers to push the infrared 

[MDC]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

No

Good. Explain the physics please.

[SteamyTea]

18 minutes ago, TonyT said:

The salesmen are too busy selling voltage optimisers to push the infrared 

Have they come back onto the market.  There was a push on them a decade ago, so probably old stock.

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, MDC said:

Explain the physics please.

 

[MDC]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

 

Oh, I imagined you were going to tell me something I don't know, but instead you chose to entertain yourself.

[TonyT]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

Have they come back onto the market.  There was a push on them a decade ago, so probably old stock.

Afraid so, probably haven’t gone away part from the domestic market, I do recall a range of small consumer unit size optimisers…

 

 

 

[Onoff]

On 06/11/2022 at 17:20, MDC said:

Good. Explain the physics please.

 

Line of sight?

 

I had one fitted in my first, block built workshop. Working at the desk and the top of my head and hands were warm but my feet / legs were cold. Working at the bench the other side and my back was warm but hands (and still feet) were cold.

[Radian]

On 06/11/2022 at 12:04, billt said:

A heat pump system won't work efficiently in intermittent applications - although mini-splits might be OK.

 

Amen to that. I've got around 60m² of "workshop" space that gets intermittent use. When I say "workshop" it's carpeted and furnished so high levels of comfort are expected when we're "working" in there, on demand. A couple of mini splits now do the climate control and I still can't get over how little power they sip while doing an incredible job at heating the space. Yesterday I was struggling to paint some shelving units out in the unheated garage - with the water based paint refusing to dry properly even after six hours. So brought them in to the workshop and cranked the A/C up to 23^oC. It got from 18 to 23 in around 20 minutes and kept it there all evening. The energy to do that was something less than 2.1kWh (the total for the full day).

 

Unlike IR heating, it's all-round warmth. Prior to the A/C being installed we were using ceramic panel heaters and while they were quick to heat you up when sat within a couple of meters of them, the contrast with everything else in the space being cold, was decidedly unpleasant. All that for a totally unaffordable electricity bill at today's prices. No thanks!

[MDC]

2 hours ago, Radian said:

 

Amen to that. I've got around 60m² of "workshop" space that gets intermittent use. When I say "workshop" it's carpeted and furnished so high levels of comfort are expected when we're "working" in there, on demand. A couple of mini splits now do the climate control and I still can't get over how little power they sip while doing an incredible job at heating the space. Yesterday I was struggling to paint some shelving units out in the unheated garage - with the water based paint refusing to dry properly even after six hours. So brought them in to the workshop and cranked the A/C up to 23^oC. It got from 18 to 23 in around 20 minutes and kept it there all evening. The energy to do that was something less than 2.1kWh (the total for the full day).

 

Unlike IR heating, it's all-round warmth. Prior to the A/C being installed we were using ceramic panel heaters and while they were quick to heat you up when sat within a couple of meters of them, the contrast with everything else in the space being cold, was decidedly unpleasant. All that for a totally unaffordable electricity bill at today's prices. No thanks!

I'd not heard the phrase "mini-split" before, so looked it up. Thank you for enlightening me. Interesting comparison too.

[MDC]

3 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

Line of sight?

 

I had one fitted in my first, block built workshop. Working at the desk and the top of my head and hands were warm but my feet / legs were cold. Working at the bench the other side and my back was warm but hands (and still feet) were cold.

I understand the problem in a workshop, but would it be the same in an insulated house? 

[Radian]

On 06/11/2022 at 11:43, MDC said:

My question is, why in the workshop and why not in the house?

 

 

In the case of a grubby workshop where you're on your feet for an hour or two at a time, the relatively low cost of the equipment for direct electric heating is about the only reason you would consider it. Other forms of heating are available, with higher efficiencies, but the cost of the equipment is difficult to justify because of the relatively short durations of use. Having said that, I'd still consider a no-frills mini-split which can be bought for around £500 and with a COP of >4 might pay for itself over a few years.