YALANCT (Yet Another Loxone And Network Cabling Thread)

[mattgibbs]

@Thorfun That's one way, any ideas on the speaker cable question?

Edited 17 hours ago by mattgibbs

[Thorfun]

10 minutes ago, mattgibbs said:

@Thorfun That's one way, any ideas on the speaker cable question?

i've not used the master/slave loxone speakers. i have the audio server and my speakers will be passive so it's just a speaker cable from cabinet (assuming i ever get around to fitting them!)

 

i'm sure someone will be along soon that has experience with those speakers. @joth and @Rob99 are both Loxone installers so might have some experience.

[joth]

18 hours ago, mattgibbs said:

1. I will be using the mini server compact's tree turbo to connect with Master and client speakers and in one room there are 6 speakers + 1 sub and at 20w a speaker and a 40m overall run from the cabinet requires 13mm2 24v cable which seems insane. Should each speaker perhaps have its own 24v driver in the ceiling using Loxones new audio cable capable of 230v? I can't think of any other  reason loxone have made a 230v audio cable for 24v speakers...

 

As an example, the Install 7 Master has 35W peak power consumption. So less than 1.5A.  That will be ok on 1.5mm2 cable at 40m

Can you show your workings to arrive at 13mm2?

 

Some notes:

1. you don't have to daisy chain all the Master speakers: it's an option if it makes sense to, but you can run separate Tree cable to each master if you worry one will be overloaded.
2. Often the max line length is (signifantly) lower if running dedicated cable direct from panel to each fixture rather than daisy chain.
3. 35W is a peak power consumption, in reality with music it's incredibly difficult to ever hit that. In practice expect a couple watts per Master.
4. End of the day, if you're using the speakers for background music and announcements voltage drop on the line will be pretty unnoticeable (the D-class amp will compensate by drawing a bit more current), c.f. constant voltage LEDs the voltage drop is perceptible, but constant-current LEDs will self correct for voltage sag. (One of a few reasons it's unfortunate Loxone don't have any credible solution for CC fixtures)

 

 

Edited 16 hours ago by joth

[Thorfun]

@joth i've just been reading about the whole master/slave thing. can you confirm something for me please.

 

it looks like if i want to have speakers in 3 rooms in my basement i can have master + slave speaker in each room and run them all from the audio server tree turbo and 24V supply and i don't need extra stereo extensions for this? and each 3 rooms can run different sources at different volumes etc?

 

so it basically reduces the need for the stereo extensions? and seeing as the stereo extension costs the same as a 7" master speaker it's like you get the speaker and the extension all-in-one?

 

am i missing something? it seems to be too good to be true!

[Thorfun]

Quote

Up to 10 Tree Turbo devices can be connected to the Tree Turbo interface of a Audioserver or Miniserver Compact.

above taken from https://www.loxone.com/enen/kb/tree-turbo/

 

so in my above example i can have the 3 rooms with 1 master speaker in each (with 1 or more client speakers connected) and then up to 7 stereo extensions (i have 4 already in the rest of the house with speaker cable already run) so i have plenty of room on my existing audioserver.

[mattgibbs]

58 minutes ago, joth said:

Can you show your workings to arrive at 13mm2?

That was based on daisy chaining all 10 speakers but if I run power separately to each speaker from the cabinet as you suggested then it's a none issue  

[mattgibbs]

34 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

am i missing something? it seems to be too good to be true!

Im not expert but my build features the loxone mini server which has tree turbo and will connect with 10 speakers so no audio server or extensions! Im sure the tree turbo on the audio server also means you can add more speakers without extensions 

[Kelvin]

3 hours ago, mattgibbs said:

That's the cable im looking at, it is capable of powering 1 speaker at 30m distance but as soon as you add 2 or 3 or in my case 7 speakers in one room the cable is no longer big enough unless powering each speaker individually. also I still don't know why this audio cable on their website is showing the 2 x 1.5mm cables as 230v rated when the speakers are 24v

Not according to their description of the system. They sell this as a way to reduce cabling.  What you’re proposing to do is typical and not a big system. I’d call them to clarify. I’ve found their tech support really helpful. 
 

https://www.loxone.com/enen/products/audio/master-client-technology/

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, mattgibbs said:

Im not expert but my build features the loxone mini server which has tree turbo and will connect with 10 speakers so no audio server or extensions! Im sure the tree turbo on the audio server also means you can add more speakers without extensions 

How come your cable distances are so long? Is there no way you can make your Loxone cabinet more central to reduce cable length? Or have a secondary cabinet? I know others on here have a second cabinet and it works for them.