YALANCT (Yet Another Loxone And Network Cabling Thread)

[mattgibbs]

@Thorfun That's one way, any ideas on the speaker cable question?

Edited Monday at 14:35 by mattgibbs

[Thorfun]

10 minutes ago, mattgibbs said:

@Thorfun That's one way, any ideas on the speaker cable question?

i've not used the master/slave loxone speakers. i have the audio server and my speakers will be passive so it's just a speaker cable from cabinet (assuming i ever get around to fitting them!)

 

i'm sure someone will be along soon that has experience with those speakers. @joth and @Rob99 are both Loxone installers so might have some experience.

[joth]

18 hours ago, mattgibbs said:

1. I will be using the mini server compact's tree turbo to connect with Master and client speakers and in one room there are 6 speakers + 1 sub and at 20w a speaker and a 40m overall run from the cabinet requires 13mm2 24v cable which seems insane. Should each speaker perhaps have its own 24v driver in the ceiling using Loxones new audio cable capable of 230v? I can't think of any other  reason loxone have made a 230v audio cable for 24v speakers...

 

As an example, the Install 7 Master has 35W peak power consumption. So less than 1.5A.  That will be ok on 1.5mm2 cable at 40m

Can you show your workings to arrive at 13mm2?

 

Some notes:

1. you don't have to daisy chain all the Master speakers: it's an option if it makes sense to, but you can run separate Tree cable to each master if you worry one will be overloaded.
2. Often the max line length is (signifantly) lower if running dedicated cable direct from panel to each fixture rather than daisy chain.
3. 35W is a peak power consumption, in reality with music it's incredibly difficult to ever hit that. In practice expect a couple watts per Master.
4. End of the day, if you're using the speakers for background music and announcements voltage drop on the line will be pretty unnoticeable (the D-class amp will compensate by drawing a bit more current), c.f. constant voltage LEDs the voltage drop is perceptible, but constant-current LEDs will self correct for voltage sag. (One of a few reasons it's unfortunate Loxone don't have any credible solution for CC fixtures)

 

 

Edited Monday at 16:02 by joth

[Thorfun]

@joth i've just been reading about the whole master/slave thing. can you confirm something for me please.

 

it looks like if i want to have speakers in 3 rooms in my basement i can have master + slave speaker in each room and run them all from the audio server tree turbo and 24V supply and i don't need extra stereo extensions for this? and each 3 rooms can run different sources at different volumes etc?

 

so it basically reduces the need for the stereo extensions? and seeing as the stereo extension costs the same as a 7" master speaker it's like you get the speaker and the extension all-in-one?

 

am i missing something? it seems to be too good to be true!

[Thorfun]

Quote

Up to 10 Tree Turbo devices can be connected to the Tree Turbo interface of a Audioserver or Miniserver Compact.

above taken from https://www.loxone.com/enen/kb/tree-turbo/

 

so in my above example i can have the 3 rooms with 1 master speaker in each (with 1 or more client speakers connected) and then up to 7 stereo extensions (i have 4 already in the rest of the house with speaker cable already run) so i have plenty of room on my existing audioserver.

[mattgibbs]

58 minutes ago, joth said:

Can you show your workings to arrive at 13mm2?

That was based on daisy chaining all 10 speakers but if I run power separately to each speaker from the cabinet as you suggested then it's a none issue  

[mattgibbs]

34 minutes ago, Thorfun said:

am i missing something? it seems to be too good to be true!

Im not expert but my build features the loxone mini server which has tree turbo and will connect with 10 speakers so no audio server or extensions! Im sure the tree turbo on the audio server also means you can add more speakers without extensions 

[Kelvin]

3 hours ago, mattgibbs said:

That's the cable im looking at, it is capable of powering 1 speaker at 30m distance but as soon as you add 2 or 3 or in my case 7 speakers in one room the cable is no longer big enough unless powering each speaker individually. also I still don't know why this audio cable on their website is showing the 2 x 1.5mm cables as 230v rated when the speakers are 24v

Not according to their description of the system. They sell this as a way to reduce cabling.  What you’re proposing to do is typical and not a big system. I’d call them to clarify. I’ve found their tech support really helpful. 
 

https://www.loxone.com/enen/products/audio/master-client-technology/

[Thorfun]

1 hour ago, mattgibbs said:

Im not expert but my build features the loxone mini server which has tree turbo and will connect with 10 speakers so no audio server or extensions! Im sure the tree turbo on the audio server also means you can add more speakers without extensions 

How come your cable distances are so long? Is there no way you can make your Loxone cabinet more central to reduce cable length? Or have a secondary cabinet? I know others on here have a second cabinet and it works for them. 

[joth]

On 03/11/2025 at 14:11, mattgibbs said:

That's the cable im looking at, it is capable of powering 1 speaker at 30m distance but as soon as you add 2 or 3 or in my case 7 speakers in one room the cable is no longer big enough unless powering each speaker individually. also I still don't know why this audio cable on their website is showing the 2 x 1.5mm cables as 230v rated when the speakers are 24v

It's the difference between test voltage limit and application voltage.

The data sheet actually rates the insulation up to 5500VAC !

https://pim.loxone.com/datasheet/100606-audio-cable

 

But also has this clumsy wording (probably clearer in the OG Deutsch)

"The power wire with 2 x 1.5 mm² can be loaded with 230 V, but the data wire
must not be connected to a 230 V circuit. Before connecting the data
conductors, the entire circuit must be limited to a maximum of 25 V."

 

i.e you can use it for 230V if you want to, but then you can't use the data cores for anything because that needs to be SELV. 

As an example, you could run this and put (only) mains down it now, but installing it as a future proof to switch over to 24V + data in future. For light switches, maybe?

(Why you'd want to do that with audio cable is anybody's guess; my guess is this is the spec for the Tree cable and they've just changed the jacket colour)

(also the 25V reference is weird, pretty sure all Loxone components are rated upto 30V input from PSU)

[joth]

On 02/11/2025 at 21:12, mattgibbs said:

3. I see your suppose to common the grounds of the power supplies which is easy in the cabinet, but do power supplies that are local to lets say a speaker or a RGBW dimmer tree compact in a ceiling also need to be common with the ones in the cabinet?

 

The commoning of grounds is a requirement for Loxone Link and Tree, but NOT for Tree Turbo

https://www.loxone.com/enen/kb/tree-turbo/

"If separate power supplies are used, it is not necessary to connect all the GNDs."

Tree Turbo is a bastardized variant of ethernet, so kinda make sense.

[joth]

23 hours ago, mattgibbs said:

That was based on daisy chaining all 10 speakers but if I run power separately to each speaker from the cabinet as you suggested then it's a none issue  

 

Loxone recommend budgeting 10W per speaker for normal installs

https://www.loxone.com/enen/products/audio/install-speaker/#:~:text=Power supply planning,to safely cover power peaks.

 

Also bear in mind that on a 40m run, no all the current will be drawn along the full distance. It's a ramp function, so on average you can model the full current at the midway point (or half the current the full distance).

You can also run it as a ring and feed the power (but NOT DATA!) cores from both ends if you really want. That halves the average current again.

I typically run data buses, even strict buses like 1-wire, as a ring back to the node 0 anyway, and only connect one end, as it makes it easy to test for continuity, diagnose issues, and even split the ring into 2 separate buses in case of any issues (cable damage or interference).

 

Edited Tuesday at 16:31 by joth

[Thorfun]

3 hours ago, joth said:

It's the difference between test voltage limit and application voltage.

The data sheet actually rates the insulation up to 5500VAC !

https://pim.loxone.com/datasheet/100606-audio-cable

 

But also has this clumsy wording (probably clearer in the OG Deutsch)

"The power wire with 2 x 1.5 mm² can be loaded with 230 V, but the data wire
must not be connected to a 230 V circuit. Before connecting the data
conductors, the entire circuit must be limited to a maximum of 25 V."

 

i.e you can use it for 230V if you want to, but then you can't use the data cores for anything because that needs to be SELV. 

As an example, you could run this and put (only) mains down it now, but installing it as a future proof to switch over to 24V + data in future. For light switches, maybe?

(Why you'd want to do that with audio cable is anybody's guess; my guess is this is the spec for the Tree cable and they've just changed the jacket colour)

(also the 25V reference is weird, pretty sure all Loxone components are rated upto 30V input from PSU)

I didn’t know about this cable. It’s still expensive though! I have some leftover 14AWG purple speaker cable and green Cat6a cable so thinking I can run the 2 cables as it’s no big deal for me. 

[mattgibbs]

On 03/11/2025 at 18:06, Thorfun said:

How come your cable distances are so long

It’s just the unfortunate shape of the house which is 8m wide but very long that makes for these long runs. I didn’t really plan for a cabinet anywhere else

[mattgibbs]

18 hours ago, joth said:

The commoning of grounds is a requirement for Loxone Link and Tree

Ah okay 👍 so if I had an RGBW compact dimmer tree in a loft space with a small 24v power supply then that ground would still need to be commoner back with those in the cabinet 

[joth]

On 05/11/2025 at 10:31, mattgibbs said:

It’s just the unfortunate shape of the house which is 8m wide but very long that makes for these long runs. I didn’t really plan for a cabinet anywhere else

I'd lean towards multiple power supplies in this case. 

But I'd also wager the whole lot would be fine on 1.5mm2 in practice for the combination of reasons mentioned before.