Y555SLD Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 I've always had it in my head that the maximum distance from the existing rear elevation for an extension within PD was 4m for detached houses and 3m for semis/terraced across the board. However reading the guidance in more detail, it appears that these limits are only applicable when building within 1m of the boundary: Does this mean, that as long as I am more than 1m from the boundary and meet all other criteria points (floor area, curtilage area, heights etc.) I can extend back from the rear elevation an unlimited distance? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 What it is saying is its 4m if you're semi or detached (the any other case), but only 3m if terraced and the extension is within 1m of the boundary. Now I think there's a 10m (or 5m) boundary rule too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 I've just read the rules here.. https://www.gov.scot/publications/guidance-householder-permitted-development-rights-9781780456836/pages/6/#SingleStoreyGroundFloorExtension and there are two sections that explain this.. Quote 4.11 snip if the extension is on, or within 1 metre of the boundary, it cannot project, from the rear wall of the existing dwellinghouse, by more than 3 metres in the case of terraced house, or 4 metres in all other cases Quote 4.17 If any part of the extension is within 1 metre of the boundary of the curtilage, it can only project from the line of the rear elevation nearest to the boundary by 3 metres if a terraced house or 4 metres in any other case. It certainly appear to be the case that the 3 and 4m limits only apply to extensions that are within 1 meter of the boundary. There is also a rule limiting the area of the garden that can be built on which might come into play. Quote the footprint of the extension is no larger than the original dwellinghouse or covering more than half the curtilage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Another explanation.. https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/25402/quick-guide-to-house-extensions Quote Do I need planning permission to build a house extension? In some cases, ’permitted development rights’ mean you can build a single storey ground floor extension without the need for planning permission. If your extension meets the following rules, you may not need planning permission: • It is located to the rear of the property or does not project forward of the side of your house if this faces a road • The eaves are not higher than 3 metres and the overall height is not higher than 4 metres • If you live in a terraced house, the extension is not longer than 3 metres if you are less than 1 metre from the boundary • If you live in a detached or semi-detached house, the extension is not longer than 4 metres if you are less than 1 metre from the boundary • The new extension, plus any previous extensions or garden developments such as sheds, does not take up more than half the rear garden, when all added together (this does not include hard surfaces or decking) • The area of the new extension, plus any previous extensions or garden developments such as sheds, are not greater than the footprint of the original house • It is not in a conservation area. continues That certainly appears to allow bigger extension if "you" are less than 1 metre 1m from the boundary. It would be nice to find the amendment to the GPDO that introduced this change but I couldn't immediately find it. A lot of web pages from as late as 2020 still dont mention the 1m rule so it must be reasonably recent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 https://www.mygov.scot/add-extension-house If your extension will have one storey, you don't need planning permission as long as: it's located at the back of the house it doesn't go back further than 3 metres if it's a terraced house, or 4 metres if it isn't the height of the eaves (where the wall meets the roof) is no higher than 3 metres it's not higher than 4 metres, including sloping roofs it doesn't cover more ground area than your house does it doesn't take up half the 'curtilage' – the grounds behind your home it isn't within a conservation area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 35 minutes ago, ash_scotland88 said: https://www.mygov.scot/add-extension-house If your extension will have one storey, you don't need planning permission as long as: it's located at the back of the house it doesn't go back further than 3 metres if it's a terraced house, or 4 metres if it isn't the height of the eaves (where the wall meets the roof) is no higher than 3 metres it's not higher than 4 metres, including sloping roofs it doesn't cover more ground area than your house does it doesn't take up half the 'curtilage' – the grounds behind your home it isn't within a conservation area +1 That's dated Sept 2020 which is more recent than some the links I posted which were 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 But then this page is dated from April 2021... https://www.gov.scot/publications/householder-permitted-development-rights-guidance-updated-2021/pages/6/#EnlargingADwellinghouse Quote 4.11 This is the most popular type of development. Permitted development rights allow the enlargement of a dwellinghouse by a single storey ground floor extension. The permitted development rights allow any alteration to the roof required for the purpose of the enlargement. In summary, the effect of the limitations is that: extensions are generally located to the rear if the extension is on, or within 1 metre of the boundary, it cannot project, from the rear wall of the existing dwellinghouse, by more than 3 metres in the case of terraced house, or 4 metres in all other cases the height of the eaves is a maximum of 3 metres the height of the extension is not higher than 4 metres the footprint of the extension is no larger than the original dwellinghouse or covering more than half the curtilage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 Cannot project...4m in all other cases..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) I questioned the appearance and disappearance of the 1m rule... My email to.. Chief.Planner@gov.scot Quote Dear Sir, On this page (https://www.gov.scot/publications/householder-permitted-development-rights-guidance-updated-2021/pages/6/#EnlargingADwellinghouse) dated April 2021.. Section 4.11 states.. "if the extension is on, or within 1 metre of the boundary, it cannot project, from the rear wall of the existing dwellinghouse, by more than 3 metres in the case of terraced house, or 4 metres in all other cases". When was the 1 meter rule reintroduced? On this page (https://www.mygov.scot/add-extension-house) dated Sept 2020 it doesnt mention the 1 meter rule, only the 3m or 4m rule. On this page https://www.gov.scot/publications/guidance-householder-permitted-development-rights-9781780456836/pages/6/#SingleStoreyGroundFloorExtension dated June 2016 it does mention the 1m rule. Which one is correct/current? The reply.. Quote Dear Colin Thank you for your enquiry. Thanks for drawing this to our attention. The short answer is that the 1m rule was never removed or re-introduced. The guidance in the Circular and on the Scottish Government website dated June 2016 is correct. I agree that the information on the mygov.scot website omits the reference to the 1m rule. My apologies for this, I will contact the mygov.scot website and arrange for this to be corrected. Kind regards (Name Redacted) Policy Manager, Development Management Planning, Architecture and Regeneration Division Scottish Government If anyone wants to ask the more important question thats the email to write to. Edited October 25, 2022 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) On 21/10/2022 at 21:21, ash_scotland88 said: Cannot project...4m in all other cases..... But that's not quite what this says... https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/25402/quick-guide-to-house-extensions Quote If your extension meets the following rules, you may not need planning permission: Snip • If you live in a terraced house, the extension is not longer than 3 metres if you are less than 1 metre from the boundary • If you live in a detached or semi-detached house, the extension is not longer than 4 metres if you are less than 1 metre from the boundary Edited October 25, 2022 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 In the quotes above we also have no clarity with the definition of curtilage This 2021 version links to a definition on the Scot Gov website. On 21/10/2022 at 20:12, Temp said: the footprint of the extension is no larger than the original dwellinghouse or covering more than half the curtilage Curtilage curtilage is not defined in the 1997 Act or 1992 Order but it is accepted to mean land which is used for the comfortable enjoyment of a building and which serves the purpose of that building in some necessary or reasonably useful way. It need not be marked off or enclosed in any way. Normally the curtilage would relate to the property boundary of the dwellinghouse. The 2020 version - rejected by the Chief Planner for the other point - is different. On 21/10/2022 at 20:04, Temp said: it doesn't take up half the 'curtilage' – the grounds behind your home I think the second one was a summary written by someone who did not have enough knowledge on this point, too. So we should use the first, although that is itself ambiguous in its use of 'private space', which puts a small time bomb under regulations which we have (at least in England and my LPA) about required private amenity space * for a dwelling. It looks to me as though using that definition one could argue that private amenity space can be in public view, with a fair shot at winning. Ferdinand * I used that to stop one of my tenant harrassing neighbour from recasting his bungalow as a row of 3 flats when he was moneygrubbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscotland Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 5 hours ago, Temp said: But that's not quite what this says... https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/downloads/file/25402/quick-guide-to-house-extensions And as far as I can see that matches the legislation (I'm pretty sure https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2011/357/schedule/made is the current rules for extensions): The projection limit is only specified in clause 2b, and would appear fairly definitely only to apply if the boundary condition is triggered. I guess that does make some sort of logical sense : you can put an outbuilding at any distance from the house, and there is no limit to the length of it so long as it doesn't cover 50% of the curtilage. So if legally you'd be allowed a long thin shed all the way to 1m before the back fence, there wouldn't be much difference putting an extension on that footprint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash_scotland88 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 If you strongly agree your right phone up your local building warrant team and tell them. I think it's been over simplified guidance notes and poor use of grammar (pot kettle I know) https://www.mygov.scot/add-extension-house Single-storey extensions If your extension will have one storey, you don't need planning permission as long as: it's located at the back of the house it doesn't go back further than 3 metres if it's a terraced house, or 4 metres if it isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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