Design Review: is this affordable in 2022?

[TheSalopian]

I've the following design but concerned RE: the crazy prices across the industry - can we afford to build this in 2022? we're hoping to keep costs around £1500sqm. @ 187m² GFA

 

Our plan is to use a local builder/contractor/TF to get us to a watertight stage; then takeover the management for the fitout. No consideration to method of construction; so any insight there would also be useful. Externally, the building will be rendered.

 

I would've liked to extend the ground floor extension across the whole width of the house, however that area is within a TPO RPA. However, I think you can encroach up to 20% of the RPA, so it might be possible - but again need to consider costs. (Would this be classed as a material amendment for planning? - or could we argue it's a minor change?)

 

EDIT: forgot to mention, this will be built in the west midlands.

 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by TheSalopian

[nod]

It looks like a nice straightforward design 

Using TF as apposed to traditional will make your build convenient But will cost quite a bit more 

[Kelvin]

32 minutes ago, nod said:

It looks like a nice straightforward design 

Using TF as apposed to traditional will make your build convenient But will cost quite a bit more 

I read that on here a lot. However, there’s a lot of other sources and analysis that says TF is comparable to traditional and one analysis I read saying it was marginally cheaper. 

[CharlieKLP]

Timber frame and brick was about the same until recently, not I’m not so sure. What is better with timber frame is the speed and ability to get the better u-values.

 

In the South people often work to £2000 per m2, maybe it’s cheaper there?
 

I think you’ve missed your chimney flue off your floor plans.

In terms of design, it’s a bit clunky but I’ve seen far worse.

[nod]

1 hour ago, Kelvin said:

I read that on here a lot. However, there’s a lot of other sources and analysis that says TF is comparable to traditional and one analysis I read saying it was marginally cheaper. 

Trust me it’s not 

Five years ago when we did our first build we came in at £815 m2 

TF was quite a bit more 

Something like 100 k to watertight traditional 130 k TF 

Since then timber prices have doubled 

While bricks and mortar haven’t 

Five years ago we paid 80 p per block 

This time we are paying 93p per block 

Face bricks are similar 

 

TF is so convenient But convenience comes at a price 

[TheSalopian]

28 minutes ago, CharlieKLP said:

I think you’ve missed your chimney flue off your floor plans.

When I submitted this post I was looking at the pictures for ages thinking something didn't add up!

 

RE: TF vs Brick, I was thinking that the deciding factor would probably be reduce time to build, resulting in reduced finance costs (less time with high rate self build mortgage).

 

What I'm struggling to figure out here is if I've got £300k to build this to completion, how much "wiggle room" do I have to play with for some creature comforts (to me anyway) things like PVs, AC, GSHPs etc. Or, perhaps it would better to just put those niceties out of mind for now?

[Kelvin]

29 minutes ago, nod said:

Trust me it’s not 

Five years ago when we did our first build we came in at £815 m2 

TF was quite a bit more 

Something like 100 k to watertight traditional 130 k TF 

Since then timber prices have doubled 

While bricks and mortar haven’t 

Five years ago we paid 80 p per block 

This time we are paying 93p per block 

Face bricks are similar 

 

TF is so convenient But convenience comes at a price 

 

Yes but is that an apples to apples comparison given, from what I understand, you did a lot of it yourself. Comparing like for like taking similar build routes to get the structure up to weather tight how do they compare? 
 

Our timber kit price for 202m2  to weather tight which includes alu clad timber windows, rooflights, all insulation, delivery and erection is going to cost £145k for CPS. If we went SIP it would be £134k. Now that is considerably dearer than 5 years ago granted. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Kelvin

[Kelvin]

13 minutes ago, TheSalopian said:

When I submitted this post I was looking at the pictures for ages thinking something didn't add up!

 

RE: TF vs Brick, I was thinking that the deciding factor would probably be reduce time to build, resulting in reduced finance costs (less time with high rate self build mortgage).

 

What I'm struggling to figure out here is if I've got £300k to build this to completion, how much "wiggle room" do I have to play with for some creature comforts (to me anyway) things like PVs, AC, GSHPs etc. Or, perhaps it would better to just put those niceties out of mind for now?

Why GSHP? They can be very expensive. 
 

It’s doable if you are able to do a lot of it yourself. You also don’t necessarily need to do all of it at once. Get it up to where you can  get it signed off and live it and then finish other elements when you have more money. You can also spend a load on kitchens or hardly anything. 
 

The problem with working to a tight budget is having enough contingency if (and when) something goes wrong. 

 

 

[nod]

1 hour ago, Kelvin said:

 

Yes but is that an apples to apples comparison given, from what I understand, you did a lot of it yourself. Comparing like for like taking similar build routes to get the structure up to weather tight how do they compare? 
 

Our timber kit price for 202m2  to weather tight which includes alu clad timber windows, rooflights, all insulation, delivery and erection is going to cost £145k for CPS. If we went SIP it would be £134k. Now that is considerably dearer than 5 years ago granted. 

I did and I’m having to do a lot myself 

 

But to give you an example I plastered and rendered two identical homes in the lake district Four actually 

One traditional the others TF All where pretty much Turnkey 

When I went to price they where pretty much shells 

Roofed but no windows 

Tradition where at 80 ish TF where 120 ish 

When we got quotes in for our second and third build Although prices had gone up The difference seemed about the same 

I don’t think that anyone came deny that timber has double in price 

The difference has widened 

 

Over the last two years I’ve worked on two sites where the TF company has gone bust due to the cost raw materials 

Prices will come down 

But I think Self builders will always be charged a premium for the convenience of TF 

 

Our current build 402 m2 including garage and workshop To a very high spec Will come in at sub 350 k 

Edited August 17, 2022 by nod

[Kelvin]

You said in another thread your groundworks and foundations were £80k. So £270k to complete. How much would a 402m2 traditional build cost if you were paying someone to do it?

[nod]

19 minutes ago, nod said:

I did and I’m having to do a lot myself 

 

But to give you an example I plastered and rendered two identical homes in the lake district Four actually 

One traditional the others TF All where pretty much Turnkey 

When I went to price they where pretty much shells 

Roofed but no windows 

Tradition where at 80 ish TF where 120 ish 

When we got quotes in for our second and third build Although prices had gone up The difference seemed about the same 

I don’t think that anyone came deny that timber has double in price 

The difference has widened 

 

Over the last two years I’ve worked on two sites where the TF company has gone bust due to the cost raw materials 

Prices will come down 

But I think Self builders will always be charged a premium for the convenience of TF 

 

Our current build 402 m2 including garage and workshop To a very high spec Will come in at sub 350 k 

I forgot to mention Which ever route you take You need a bit of luck with your plot Ground conditions services 

and the main one Top and waste water 

[nod]

1 minute ago, Kelvin said:

You said in another thread your groundworks and foundations were £80k. So £270k to complete. How much would a 402m2 traditional build cost if you were paying someone to do it?

Correct 

That’s what we have without selling our home 

[Kelvin]

7 minutes ago, nod said:

Correct 

That’s what we have without selling our home 

Sure but that’s still just £870 per m2. That’s a huge gap from what most self-builders are likely to a achieve. I couldn’t buy the materials for our build for that. 

[nod]

16 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

You said in another thread your groundworks and foundations were £80k. So £270k to complete. How much would a 402m2 traditional build cost if you were paying someone to do it?

A large part of The  80 k was clearing the site for both plots and running a 75 metre long drain across our field 

Which will service both houses 

Treatmebt plant and Bb for house and garage are in with the 80 

 

Cost is easy to workout for traditional 

Foundation blocks Labour 25m2 

7n concrete blocks £21 m2

Facing brick £750 per thousand 

Foundation costs will be the same 

and probably the only part of the build that you can not cost accurately 

 

£1500 m2 is doable if you intend doing most things yourself 

Get several TF quotes and see if it’s within budget 

[shuff27]

Hi @TheSalopian, I'm nearly at the end of my build, 205sqm GIA in Northants so not dissimilar to your project.  Build cost is coming in at £400k (including attached single garage) once VAT reclaim is factored in, this is about £60k over the budget I set 18 months ago & the overspend is mostly due to the materials price increase (services also came in over budget due to Anglain Water's intransigence).

 

Mine is TF with facing bricks & slate roof.  Typical self build spec, i.e. 3G glazing, MVHR, ASHP & UFH.

 

I've fully self managed all stages, employing individual trades.  Not saying it's impossible but if you can achieve £1500psqm while using a contractor to get it to watertight stage you'll be doing well imho.  Good luck!

[Andehh]

nod - I think you need to be clearer when you tell people you came in at £800psqm - because you did a huge amount yourself I believe? Far more than even the most enthusiastic DIYer would be able to do.

 

Otherwise I agree with your statement, - £1500 if you are very hands on & involved with a low-mid spec, otherwise assume closer to £2000+ psqm for a more standard contractor led build with limited ''hands on'' focus yourself. 

 

We are at £2300psqm for a large bungalow to a mid/high spec (though mid spec bathroom/kitchens). Bungalow being prob 25% more to build then normal house. Brick/block, MVHR, very big aluminium windows, floating corner, high ceilings, upgraded insulation (though not extreme).

 

[JohnMo]

It's a difficult call, you can build a basic house quite cheaply, the costs go up with the outside finish, floor finish and kitchen and bathrooms and glazing. Plus bells and whistles that may not be needed. Your going to have to do lots yourself to make it work.  GSHP, PV, will kill the budget unless your in the digger doing the trenches, even then you may not see change out £6-7k for GSHP. 

 

Your rear glazing may need to be simplified (made smaller, dump bi folds etc), to make the budget work, AC is another £1-2k plus F gas engineer to install.

 

If it were me, and I really needed to control the budget.

 

Find a builder you like, use their preferred build method, render finish, insulate really well, make a reasonable air tightness, to allow MEV, dMEV ventilation that is humidity sensitive, so it ventilates only when needed.  Drop the Juliet balcony, drop bi folds and make french doors with fixed panel either side, ASHP, UFH downstairs (single zone) radiators in bedrooms.

 

Find a kitchen install company work with on a good kitchen design, but give them a small budget.  Same with bathrooms.