Lower Sliding doors height without moving lintel/beams??

[Ambaz79]

Hello

 

In our ground floor we have 2 sliding doors that are 4.8M and 2M wide and 2.1M tall.  What I want to do is inset the lower frame of the doors to finished floor level however I have ordered the doors to fit a 2.1M height.  If we now inset the sliding doors then we would have a 40mm gap at the top of the frame to the lintel.  there is a lintel on the 2M opening and a steel beam on the 4..8M opening so these can not really be moved now.  Is there any other way to fill this gap without needing to touch the lintel.

 

My window fitter has told me 40mm is too much to try and fill with foam and the other issue is we are rendering so if we fill it the render bead in the corner will not finish flush to the frame.  Trying to make the house as airtight as possible so looking for a solution that can tick this box too.

 

Does anyone have any ideas on how we can get around this? 

 

Thanks for your help in advance!

[Temp]

Not sure why you can't use wood instead of foam. Perhaps a Wood/Rigid Foam/Wood sandwich to provide a thermal break?

 

Might need mesh over the wood-lintel join on the outside to prevent cracks in render. 

 

Perhaps I misunderstood the problem?

 

 

[Ambaz79]

Hello.. No you have understood the problem correctly.  I think this could be an option and I did think of something similar but the builder dismissed it as not possible.  

 

As a novice to these things it's hard to challange the builder this is why I came in here to see any options that are out there. 

 

How would we fix the wood to the steel beams?  Something like no more nails? 

[PeterW]

40mm filler using timber is fine but be careful that you don’t drop too low. When working out your finished floor you need to remember any tiles / carpets etc and add this on - you could be less than 40mm 

[Ambaz79]

Yes I've got the screed floor level and added 10mm for my spc flooring. The spc is actually 5mm this including the underlay so allowing a 5mm lip on the frame at floor level. 

[Temp]

Timber can be shot nailed or bolted to steel beams.  We have done to the web of the beams in our house but not sure if it's allowed to drill holes in the flanges? 

 

How was he going to fix the door frame to the underside of the beam before you decided to lower it? Use same method.

[Russell griffiths]

My door supplier insisted on a 30mm gap above the doors, due to lots of larger openings dropping over time. 

I would not fill this gap with anything solid, but wait for the doors to be installed then fill with an eps insulation and use a trim to match the doors, powder coated aluminium or pvc. 

[saveasteading]

16 hours ago, Temp said:

not sure if it's allowed to drill holes in the flanges? 

We should never make holes in webs or flanges without a check. 

In reality there is usually some spare load capacity, and spread out fixings will be ok....but a phone call to the SE is likely to result in a straight forward 'no problem'.

Also consider out of balance loading..If the timber is all on one side, then the load will twist the beam....which is  bad thing.

I prefer to fix using purpose made 'timber to steel' screws. This allows for careful tightening , and some adjustment. Concealing  the head without risking pull-out may require consideration.

[Ambaz79]

On 14/08/2022 at 00:29, Temp said:

Timber can be shot nailed or bolted to steel beams.  We have done to the web of the beams in our house but not sure if it's allowed to drill holes in the flanges? 

 

How was he going to fix the door frame to the underside of the beam before you decided to lower it? Use same method.

Im very sure he was just going to drill holes into the Steel beam. 

 

22 hours ago, saveasteading said:

We should never make holes in webs or flanges without a check. 

In reality there is usually some spare load capacity, and spread out fixings will be ok....but a phone call to the SE is likely to result in a straight forward 'no problem'.

Also consider out of balance loading..If the timber is all on one side, then the load will twist the beam....which is  bad thing.

I prefer to fix using purpose made 'timber to steel' screws. This allows for careful tightening , and some adjustment. Concealing  the head without risking pull-out may require consideration.

The frame for the Sliding doors will sit under both beams so we will have to put timber under both beams and make sure we secure the frame to both of the beams. 

 

I think the option we will be going with is filling the 40mm gap with a 20-25mm timber in and out separately.  Then fill the gap between the timber with foam and fix the frame to the top with screws.  Leaving a 15-20mm gap that can then be filled with foam and silicon again.  I have spoken to our Steel engineer and they have confirmed we can make holes into the Beam at about 30-50cm intervals but he is going to send me drawings for this later today so we know the size of the holes and the minimum distance between the holes. 

 

Thanks for all the help!

[saveasteading]

9 hours ago, Ambaz79 said:

filled with foam and silicon again.

Is that wise? Something not being normal is often for a good reason. I am thinking that the foam and silicon are flexible so the door movement might cause the timber to 'swing' ever so slightly relative to the steel.

I think at least screw through timber packers (cut exactly or folding) so that the screw is pulled tight.