Dee Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 So my attention now turns to fitting out a bathroom and Cloakroom. Is it possible to fit a loo cistern in the loft? The Cloakroom had limited space and I'm reluctant to use a concealed cistern in the stud wall as there will be a shower on the other side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Have you not considered one of these framed WC's? All fits into a standard 4" stud wall and all the components can be changed in minutes. The flush plates click on / off and all the internal parts come out through that opening . Not the cheapest of solutions, but cheaper than going round the gardens with remote mounted cisterns. Fwiw, I've done a couple of high level / remote cisterns, and one where it went in the attic, and the only issue was the flush control tbh. The velocity of the water coming down the flush pipe was excessively noisy though and when it got to the pan it was doing about a 100mph so splashed beyond the pan slightly when it got there. Go for the sealed frame arrangement and dont forget they're available for floor mounting the pan as well as wall mounting depending on how brave your feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Yes, I did it many years ago, no problem at all, and it flushed extremely well indeed, because of the extra head of water. What I did was fit a high-level wall mounting cistern in a small loft space (the bathroom was party room-in-roof). Instead of having the pull chain just dangling down, I fed a much longer chain inside a bit of 15mm copper water pipe, so I could feed it through two bends to get it to come out in at a convenient place. The flush pipe was similar fed down via a couple of bends (pretty sure I used 42mm waste pipe, but it's a long time ago) and fed behind a dry lined wall. Edited June 2, 2017 by JSHarris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Hmm, intersting considerations.....The drop would only be about 1.5 m with one 90 degree bend. ive' read somewhere about infrred controls for the flush ? @Nickfromwales I have been looking at these but there will be a shower on the other side of that wall where teh loo will sit....unless I sit the shower away from the wall and have a mobile shelf unit that I can wheel out to gain access to the cistern and shower valve. Space is tight though hence the reason for pushing the shower tight to the wall and having the cistern in the attic space.....In theory though, can it be done ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Gerberit make a pneumatically operated remote flush button that will work up to 1.7m away from the cistern, and only needs a small bore air pipe to connect the button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 what's an air pipe ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, Dee said: what's an air pipe ? Piece of 6mm silicone hose that goes on the back of the push button - works as a pneumatic circuit and has a piston on the other end to operate the flush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Very poor results. That's exactly what i fitted on the attic one I did and it was beyond crap. After a dozen flushes the air settles and you have to ram the button to get a slight flush. If doing that ever again I'd use 6mm copper brake line and short pieces of the silicone hose supplied as final connections bonded with CT1 / similar. Over the 1.7m the silicone hose expands slightly when under pressure ( when pressing the flush button ) absorbing the energy and thus hardly moving the flush bellows which open the flush valve. Actually, if ever doing that again I'd probably use a 12/24 volt solenoid. Edited June 2, 2017 by Nickfromwales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Dee said: Hmm, intersting considerations.....The drop would only be about 1.5 m with one 90 degree bend. ive' read somewhere about infrred controls for the flush ? @Nickfromwales I have been looking at these but there will be a shower on the other side of that wall where teh loo will sit....unless I sit the shower away from the wall and have a mobile shelf unit that I can wheel out to gain access to the cistern and shower valve. Space is tight though hence the reason for pushing the shower tight to the wall and having the cistern in the attic space.....In theory though, can it be done ? If the shower is the other side then just mount the shower valve immediately above the cistern top to avoid the conflict. ? All flush / concealed and with a bar mixer its a 5 minute job to remove and replace. No need for mobile boxing in etc . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 OK, so I've parked that idea.... Too many unknowns. So, the cistern that sit inside the stud wall... Can they be accessed from the front for repairs ect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 37 minutes ago, Dee said: OK, so I've parked that idea.... Too many unknowns. So, the cistern that sit inside the stud wall... Can they be accessed from the front for repairs ect? Yep - all comes through the flush plate :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 Eh? What if the cyphon breaks or something needs repairing.... Where's the access? Would I make a removable panel above the pan.... Can't compute, I know I'm being thick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney12 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 50 minutes ago, Dee said: Eh? What if the cyphon breaks or something needs repairing.... Where's the access? Would I make a removable panel above the pan.... Can't compute, I know I'm being thick Yep! I couldn't believe it either until Nick posted this video: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 @Dee As per the vid barney bumped, you don't even need a spanner or a screwdriver to change every component. The syphon comes out like changing a light bulb, and usually the rubber seal just needs cleaning and / or reversing ( or replacing if it's truly knackered ) . It's all done up hand tight. To quote Dylan Thomas......... "These are the dogs bollocks, madam" ? You can go wall mounted for contemporary, or floor mounted for a more traditional look . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 Wow! I'm impressed..... That's genius (or am I too easily pleased) Love the animation too.... It's what husband does for a living Thanks @NickfromWales... ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) On 2017-6-2 at 08:16, Nickfromwales said: Have you not considered one of these framed WC's? All fits into a standard 4" stud wall and all the components can be changed in minutes. The flush plates click on / off and all the internal parts come out through that opening . Not the cheapest of solutions, but cheaper than going round the gardens with remote mounted cisterns. Fwiw, I've done a couple of high level / remote cisterns, and one where it went in the attic, and the only issue was the flush control tbh. The velocity of the water coming down the flush pipe was excessively noisy though and when it got to the pan it was doing about a 100mph so splashed beyond the pan slightly when it got there. Go for the sealed frame arrangement and dont forget they're available for floor mounting the pan as well as wall mounting depending on how brave your feeling. Hi @Nickfromwales With these concealed cisterns, am I right in thinking that wall hung loos need the steel frame type and floor mounted loos don't? Edited June 12, 2017 by Dee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 @Dee Both 'can' use the frame, which is the best option as it holds all the gubbings where they need to be. You benefit from the frame so it holds the flush and ? pipe in place so you can push the pan back without anything moving away from you. . You can go for a stand alone cistern with the removable gubbings feature but I'd have to ping some links here later as I only fit the frames ( for a good nights sleep ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) Makes total sense.... Now my current problem is the poo pipe.... I will be fitting two loos. One will replace an old loo so the stack and bendy pipe is already there, a new loo will sit 4m away and directly in front of the old one. To get any fall I need to notch out 5 joists. 1. How much must I notch out to get the fall? 2 where do I notch, to one side or the other of the existing poo pipe? Or directly in line. The first image is where the old loo will be replaced, the second and third is taken from the position of the second new loo and the run the pipe will take. (piece of wood balanced on joist is where the stud wall will be) I can't visualise how the new pipe will connect to the old pipe (first picture) Confused..... And all this happening while husband is cycling in Italy!!! Grrrr Edited June 13, 2017 by Dee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Why can't you go below the joists ..? You will struggle to notch the tops. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) I am @PeterW ....but the gap is only 100mm and the pipe is 130mm. There is a void btewen the 2 sets of joists Edited June 13, 2017 by Dee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Pipe should be 110mm..?? Looks much deeper or is that an illusion ..? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Don't notch the underside of the upper joist, notch the top of the lower one. 130mm ? What are you measuring . ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 11 hours ago, PeterW said: Pipe should be 110mm..?? Looks much deeper or is that an illusion ..? It is 110 but it has a collar moulded to one end with a rubber seal inside.... Hence 130mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Posted June 14, 2017 Author Share Posted June 14, 2017 This is what I'm using... The collar end is 130mm moulded onto 110mm pipe. They are 1.2m lengths.. Due to very restricted access I know to notch out the top of the lower joist but where along the joist do I notch? Close to the wall, center, right? I can't visualise how it will connect into the soil stack (next to the window in the image) will it connect to the stack or into the old 90 degree (first image)? I don't want to waste my time notching in one position only to have my plumber tell me it needed to be to the left or right.... See my dilemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Here is some BC guidance on notching joists https://www.dacorum.gov.uk/docs/default-source/planning-development/22---guidance-note---technical---notching-of-joists-may2011.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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