Hastings Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 Does anyone know if the requirement in Scottish regulation for reinforcing timber stud walls with plywood (eg. behind plasterboard) means it should be on both sides of the shower and WC or just on one side is sufficient? The regulation - 3.12.3 Accessible sanitary accommodation doesn't specifically state both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenki Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 My view, and my plan on this was / is to board all walls. That way no arguments and you will have great easy fixing available. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrerahill Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Jenki said: My view, and my plan on this was / is to board all walls. That way no arguments and you will have great easy fixing available. +1 on this. I also did this in my kitchen on walls that would be or could be in the future, used for kitchen cabinets etc. It was brilliant when I came to fit my kitchen cabinets, set the laser up, marked the line all the way around, and as I put up cabinets I just put the next bracket on the wall and screwed it in, caring not where I landed as I knew I'd hit a stud or OSB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markc Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 Agree with the above, boarded walls make fitting kitchens and wall hung appliances a dream 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hastings Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 (edited) Yes but I need to know the answer because the plasterboarding has been done in error without any in place and I am trying to minimise the disruption and cost of undoing the plasterboarding to correct. Really I want to save opening one of the shower side walls and maybe the shower back wall, where there is little point in having it as a grab rail would never be useful there, I think. Edited July 18, 2022 by Hastings added info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscotland Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 I'm pretty sure it's only required on the bathroom side - my warrant drawings were accepted on that basis anyway. Makes sense as the purpose is to provide secure fixing for fittings and ply on the opposite side of the wall would make no difference to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 It just says it has to be robust. so you could put in a 3x2 at the correct position rather than 18mm plywood(ing) a large area. inspector isn’t going to be pulling at them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscotland Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 20 minutes ago, TonyT said: It just says it has to be robust. so you could put in a 3x2 at the correct position rather than 18mm plywood(ing) a large area. As I understand the issue is there is no "correct position" in Scotland, the regs are concerned with future proofing to allow installation of "grab rails and other aids" anywhere within the marked zones at any time in the future. Hence why they show zones not specific provisions of numbers/locations of rails etc. 20 minutes ago, TonyT said: inspector isn’t going to be pulling at them My mother in law was, however, recently asked for photos showing the wall met the robust construction requirements. So it does depend on the inspector/local authority. @Hastings reading your post again it sounds like the issue is the bathroom side is already plasterboarded but the other side may still be open? If so you could possibly retrofit ply between studs using the bottom option here (from fig 3.33 in the technical handbook). Mount the ply to battens then slide into the gap & screw/nail to the studs. May be less work than stripping and reboarding? Also, may be a daft question but a strict read of 3.12.3 would be that the robust wall is only required if the bathroom is officially required to be "accessible sanitary accommodation". If you have other accessible bath/shower rooms you may have a bit of wiggle room here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hastings Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 One wall is a partition which is open on the corridor side for plumbing/wiring to go in so I can fit the ply in from that side with battening around edges, no problem. One side of the WC and 2 sides of the shower are on outside walls and have been p/boarded - it's just those that I'd like to confirm really need re-doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hastings Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 1 hour ago, andyscotland said: I'm pretty sure it's only required on the bathroom side Could you expand? Not quite sure what you mean. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Isn’t the zones they show activity space? i.e the space you have to have available. Around the wc/shower etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscotland Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Just now, Hastings said: Could you expand? Not quite sure what you mean. Thanks. First read I'd thought you were asking if it was needed on both sides of the wall e.g. the side facing bathroom and the side facing corridor/outside/whatever. I see now you meant one or both sides of the shower/WC. I'm not an expert but strict read of the wording & drawings fairly clearly suggests both walls e.g. "walls adjacent to any sanitary facility" not "one wall adjacent to each sanitary facility". I know that it's quite common to need rails both/a specific side of a WC or shower depending on nature of a person's disabilities. So I would assume all round. 9 minutes ago, Hastings said: One side of the WC and 2 sides of the shower are on outside walls and have been p/boarded - it's just those that I'd like to confirm really need re-doing. Assume this is timber frame and/or plasterboard on battens? Obviously if direct masonry that's fine as-is. If the plasterboard is hollow behind then my read (and again, not an expert) is you would need these to be robust. You probably have 3 options: * Ask building control for an opinion (and be willing to do whatever they say). * Take a loose read that the wording means one robust side, do the walls that are easy, leave the others, hope that's correct and/or not noticed. * Strip and do it now. Depends I guess on how much more work it'd be to strip it later (will you have to damage tiles etc) if building control pull you up on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Just remove the plasterboard if it hasn’t been taped or plastered. if it has get the multi tool out and cut access hatches to add the timber, then re tape/plaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscotland Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, TonyT said: Isn’t the zones they show activity space? i.e the space you have to have available. Around the wc/shower etc They show both : plan drawings of the available activity space and then the elevations @Hastings posted in the OP showing the area that should be "robust" with a section showing either ply over studs or ply between on battens. https://www.gov.scot/publications/building-standards-2017-domestic/3-environment/312-sanitary-facilities/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscotland Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 @Hastings it does occur that in the activity space drawings @TonyT mentioned, the loo is shown in a corner of the room (wall behind & on one side) & the shower is in the middle of a room with only one wall at the back of it. So arguably if they could be sited with no wall at all, they could have a wall that's not robust... May be worth asking BC for a view... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hastings Posted July 18, 2022 Author Share Posted July 18, 2022 The trouble with asking BC is 1/. it can take weeks to get a reply, 2/. the reply is sometimes wrong (they don't know the regulations and don't have time or the inclination to look them up themselves) or the reply is unclear. As I don't need to do the work until next week I will probably just put in a question now and if there's no reply by the weekend do it all to be safe as it isn't a huge job (hasn't been taped and filled yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyscotland Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 22 minutes ago, Hastings said: The trouble with asking BC is 1/. it can take weeks to get a reply, 2/. the reply is sometimes wrong (they don't know the regulations and don't have time or the inclination to look them up themselves) or the reply is unclear. Indeed, I have experienced all of those. Hence my usual temptation is to take the most pedantic read of the regs I can and crack on. Although if they reply in writing saying something is ok then I think it would be challenging for an inspector to reject that at completion unless the advice was very obviously wrong/dangerous. Which is probably why when I have asked they have often been non-committal/said it's up to me to comply and they'll only give a view if I apply for an amendment to warrant... 😒 22 minutes ago, Hastings said: As I don't need to do the work until next week I will probably just put in a question now and if there's no reply by the weekend do it all to be safe as it isn't a huge job (hasn't been taped and filled yet). I'd probably go that way tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hastings Posted July 21, 2022 Author Share Posted July 21, 2022 On 18/07/2022 at 17:46, andyscotland said: when I have asked they have often been non-committal/said it's up to me to comply and they'll only give a view if I apply for an amendment to warrant.. Exactly my experience too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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