Radian Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, Thorfun said: why does everything on this forum have to be about payback period? how about doing something not for financial gain/benefit but just because you want to? even if it was about payback then after 10 years @pocster is getting free electricity for the rest of the lifetime of the panels and batteries! sounds brilliant to me and if I get that I'd be very happy. but I didn't do my solar PV and batteries for any kind of payback but to reduce my reliance on the grid. but each to their own I guess. I know that not everyone is in the fortunate position to be able to afford to do stuff just because they want to or for another reason that isn't financial. anyway, @pocster is still the absolute b*llocks, as his signature reminds us. I was genuinely trying to see if there's something I was missing that might be relevant to my own financial situation - which is one where payback is of paramount importance. I'm not criticising anyone or anything. I do however know that I have a considerable capacity to overlook the bleedin' obvious at times! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 4 minutes ago, Radian said: I was genuinely trying to see if there's something I was missing that might be relevant to my own financial situation - which is one where payback is of paramount importance. I'm not criticising anyone or anything. I do however know that I have a considerable capacity to overlook the bleedin' obvious at times! I get it that people's situations do differ and I apologise if I came across a bit aggressive! it wasn't meant that way. I guess you can think of Solar PV as paying for your electricity up front. so even though it's a big outlay initially, after 10 years (and some solar panels offer 25-30yr guarantee iirc) you're basically getting the electricity for free. it seems like a no-brainer to me IF you're planning on staying in the property for that length of time. if it's a build and sell job then probably not worth it as you won't recoup the costs on the sale price but that could all change as the price of electricity rises and solar panels then become a massive selling point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 15 minutes ago, Thorfun said: I get it that people's situations do differ and I apologise if I came across a bit aggressive! it wasn't meant that way. I guess you can think of Solar PV as paying for your electricity up front. so even though it's a big outlay initially, after 10 years (and some solar panels offer 25-30yr guarantee iirc) you're basically getting the electricity for free. it seems like a no-brainer to me IF you're planning on staying in the property for that length of time. if it's a build and sell job then probably not worth it as you won't recoup the costs on the sale price but that could all change as the price of electricity rises and solar panels then become a massive selling point. No apology necessary. I have run my own numbers on a small (3.2kWp) PV installation and even with turn-key MCS certified installation it does make financial sense for me. But how I wish the economics of battery storage would pan out. I'm sizing my PV based on what I know I can consume. I've modelled that quite extensively but I still bet I've got it wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 22 minutes ago, Radian said: No apology necessary. I have run my own numbers on a small (3.2kWp) PV installation and even with turn-key MCS certified installation it does make financial sense for me. But how I wish the economics of battery storage would pan out. I'm sizing my PV based on what I know I can consume. I've modelled that quite extensively but I still bet I've got it wrong! As a business bloke return on investment ( payback ) is important. It is a no brainer for me . Factor in an EV aswell . So my ‘fuel ‘ costs for EV and my electric costs per unit are the same . Of course I have no idea what lecky will cost in 1 yr / 5 or 10 . BUT ! There is no obvious golden goose here ! . No matter how many ‘solutions ! , the government suggests - they will take many years . As martyish it sounds we all need to consume less and reduce all our carbon footprints - so that’s important for all future generations. I recall on this forum when I first got my power wall 2 pre war / Covid etc. how mocked I was . I don’t care of course because I have a higher agenda . 50p a kWh might seem cheap 12 months from now ….. that’s the real problem …. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) Confluence I believe is the word … Electricity consumption is estimated to Increase ( even pre war / Covid ) Extracting gas/oil in new regions to new depths will cost more . Global warming / environment was previously a ‘joke’ by all world powers . Unfortunately it’s real . Future generations inherit our problems ( as indeed the current generation does ) The world owes me nothing . Not a roof over my head , not food , not water . I have no ‘ right ‘ to these . So I must earn them and repay it . Ideology maybe ? . Hippy shit maybe . Sustainable approach to my consumption absolutely. Long time dead - can’t take money with you ; I’ll be (expletive deleted)ed before tax man takes it in inheritance tax . Just my view . Of course ; just a personal view of my ‘cost ‘ to the planet . Will go and smoke some weed shit now . I won’t ; because I’ll spew - so Chablis instead 😁👍 Edited July 1, 2022 by pocster Need more Chablis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 Live long and prosper as some pointed ear’d twat said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfun Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 43 minutes ago, Radian said: No apology necessary. I have run my own numbers on a small (3.2kWp) PV installation and even with turn-key MCS certified installation it does make financial sense for me. But how I wish the economics of battery storage would pan out. I'm sizing my PV based on what I know I can consume. I've modelled that quite extensively but I still bet I've got it wrong! yeah, I get that battery storage is currently expensive but I still think it works, financially if you go for a more DIY type expandable solution rather than the PW2 or SE solution that @pocster has. I have gone down the LuxPower/Pylontech (although they're not actually Pylontech batteries but Pylontech are very commonly used it would seem) route. I was offered a 12.8kW system which was 4 x 3.2kW batteries and the Squirrel Pod inverter for £7102.50 + vat. sadly our budget didn't stretch that far as the current material prices has really made a dent in our build costs. so I scaled it back and got the Squirrel Pod and 2 x 3.2kW batteries for £4102.50 +VAT. I thought that was a reasonable cost for the system that 'should' help me store daily produced electricity for use at night. if I fully filled and emptied daily I'd be looking at saving £700 a year @ 30p/kWh and if I manage to claim the VAT back I am looking at approx. 6 year payback time. if I'd gone for the bigger array at the off then I'd be looking at a 5 year payback period. that's just fine as far as I'm concerned. so after 6 years and assuming no hardware failure or replacement I will be getting free electricity produced by my PV array for use overnight. and once the build is finished and I have disposable income again I can easily add extra batteries to increase the capacity of the system, or add a second squirrel pod to increase the discharge rate to up to 7kW. yeah, it was a big outlay and I'd have liked to get a bigger capacity from the off but I'm ok with it and it'll help me for now. if you want information on the Squirrel Pod you can check it out at https://www.infinityinnovations.co.uk/?product_type=lux-power all of the above is caveated with the fact that I haven't actually installed the system yet and am quite a way from finishing our house. so I'm actually hoping that it all works out well in the end. 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, Thorfun said: quite a way from finishing our house. so I'm actually hoping that it all works out well in the end. Lol ! Snap! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 38 minutes ago, pocster said: I recall on this forum when I first got my power wall 2 pre war / Covid etc. how mocked I was . I don't believe I mocked you...well not about that anyway... 😉 PV, I'm sitting here thinking if I could I would. Then it progresses to can I afford not to? Some I guess take the peace of mind view. A big outlay on the face of it but a lot of satisfaction sticking it to the man and being reliant on nobody. That would be my philosophy I think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 11 minutes ago, pocster said: 50p a kWh might seem cheap 12 months from now ….. that’s the real problem …. Yes, after pondering this a while, I came up with the same unpleasant thought. I've probably been blanking it out because it's just too awful to contemplate. But like getting used to getting old - and all the unavoidable changes that brings, I think I'm beginning to get used to letting go all the certainties we once enjoyed about the cost of energy. A canny investor may well make a balanced judgment about the future and deploy their financial resources accordingly. Time for a second mortgage perhaps. Oh wait, I know Ohms law... 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Radian said: Oh wait, I know Ohms law... 😉 As in you know you want to / resistance is futile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Radian said: Yes, after pondering this a while, I came up with the same unpleasant thought. I've probably been blanking it out because it's just too awful to contemplate. But like getting used to getting old - and all the unavoidable changes that brings, I think I'm beginning to get used to letting go all the certainties we once enjoyed about the cost of energy. A canny investor may well make a balanced judgment about the future and deploy their financial resources accordingly. Time for a second mortgage perhaps. Oh wait, I know Ohms law... 😉 As it stands regardless of governments / war / Covid / brexit - electricity will cost more . So ( I guess ) Pv /battery is a hedge against that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, pocster said: war Come in No.7, your time is up! 😂 Won't the nuclear winter make PV redundant? That and the EMP destroy all the clever electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, Onoff said: Come in No.7, your time is up! 😂 Won't the nuclear winter make PV redundant? That and the EMP destroy all the clever electronics. Yes . So in that scenario we are all (expletive deleted)ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) Just now, pocster said: Yes . So in that scenario we are all (expletive deleted)ed Though I get £10off at (expletive deleted)ing Morrisons Edited July 1, 2022 by pocster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 3 minutes ago, pocster said: Yes . So in that scenario we are all (expletive deleted)ed You can at least hunker in the bunker...and bunk her.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Down here in the valley it'll be like Z For Zachariah with the earth battery still churning out 0.8V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocster Posted July 1, 2022 Author Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Onoff said: You can at least hunker in the bunker...and bunk her.... Creating the next world population…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave C Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 4 hours ago, Radian said: Believe me I don't want to go raining on anyone's parade but I sincerely wish I understood the economics of battery storage in today's market. 10kWh of leccy for £12K? It can be done a lot cheaper - I had 7kWh of battery storage installed for <£5K earlier this year (not a DIY install or anything). That makes the payback period come quite a bit sooner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radian Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 1 hour ago, pocster said: Though I get £10off at (expletive deleted)ing Morrisons Looks like you might have to travel to Faslane to redeem that. According to that map, Ivan is taking trouble to avoid deleting our nuke fleet 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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