Demolition of internal walls

[bupieker]

Hello All,

I have got Building Control approval to start a project within my flat (located on the first floor of a house with one flat below and above mine). Currently, the flat has a central corridor leading to the two bedrooms. I want to remove this corridor to make a semi open plan kitchen/living room (indeed, one wall is load bearing but made of timber so I'll remove the plasterboard to get the light through).

 

As part of my Building Control application, I had to provide a report from a Structural Engineer (SE). The report indicates that one of the wall is load bearing (intermediate load bearing wall) even though likely made of timber. Ther other wall of the corridor is not load bearing. The SE checked the size of the joist by making an opening on the ceiling and made a calcs saying that one wall is sufficient. The walls were still with platsterboard when he surveyed so he has not seen what's under it. Note that my neighbour on the flat above has the same corridor above mine. The corridors are running perpendicular to the joists. 

 

Since I got the green light from building control I have started to remove the plaster board to see the timber studs. The wall supposed to be load bearing is shown below.

 

 

 

The wall which is non load bearing is shown below. 

 

 

I was surprised to see that the non-load bearing wall has 4"x2" vertical timber studs of this size (note that I don't have any knowledge  ). There is also a top plate measuring 4"x2".  Do you think this is normal for a non load bearing wall. How can I be sure it is not load bearing or that I can remove it safely? 

 

 

I also aim to remove a wall between the two bathrooms in order to make a single larger bathroom. Similarly, the Structural Engineer indicated that it is not load bearing. Probably because if joists are running the same way along the flat, then this wall is running in parallel to them. He has not made a hole in the ceiling there. By removing the plasterboard this morning I noticed that this wall is made of bricks which seemed very odd to me as all other walls (apart from the external walls) are made of timber. What do you think?  Do you think that this can be removed safely? Note that on currently it seems that there is no wall above or below it. 

 

Your views on the the above would be most welcomed.

Thanks

P.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by bupieker

[ProDave]

Discuss with your SE for guidance. He is the one providing the design and certifying his design is safe.  Do not remove any of the walls until you have full plans from the SE saying what can be removed what cannot be removed and what alternative support he proposes where a load bearing wall is removed.

 

Nothing unusual in non load bearing walls being made of 4 by 2 timber, in many cases you can't just tell by looking at the wall if it is load bearing or not.

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

in many cases you can't just tell by looking at the wall if it is load bearing or not.

And you don't know what a previous owner has done. Remove an old load-bearing wal and add another nearby with whatever timber is handy for example.

 

The SE should be able to 'read' the building.

[Russell griffiths]

Just as a bit of a reference you have two different periods those walls where built. 

The top one has little white stains on it showing that it used to have lath and plaster on it, the other wall is far newer. 

I would bet my left one that the flats where once a single house and it was converted into 3 flats. 

The wall with the diagonal brace and the lath and plaster is an original wall, and the other is a newer wall installed by the builder who did the conversion. 

 

Just so you can do a bit more digging on the history. 

[saveasteading]

Yes. Left one probably Victorian.

The newer wall even has printing on it but prob not a date. 70s?

 

Houses from Victorian times were very much to a pattern, so someone who knows this can see if any walls are missing.

[bupieker]

Good morning all and thank you for your answers !

I only noticed them now hence my late reply... 

 

You are right, it seems that one of the wall was installed before the other one. The building was converted into flats in 1998. 

The structural engineer produced a report stating that the wall (which looks new) is not load bearing. He also provided a calcs. See attached. I guess this is suficient to proceed with the removal of the wall? 

 

On top of that, I also aimed to removed a wall between two bathrooms in order to keep a single bathroom. As mentioned in my previous post, I was surprised to see that it was made of brick. I had a call with the SE who told me that since there is no wall above it and since it is likely running parallel to the joist it is then non load bearing. Last night I therefore wanted to make sure it was running parallel to the joist but could not find joist, only concrete... I have also liften the floor at the bathroom entrance and this seems to be concrete too. This is strange as I can see a joist from the hole made in the corridor... Is it that part of the building is made of concrete and the other of timber? Also, I have noticed that the angle of the ceiling/wall in the bathroom is not at 90 degrees (see slide pack), not sure what this implies...

I have prepared a slide pack providing pictures of the building, internal and floor plans... I have passed it on to the SE and I am waiting for his answer but other opinions would be welcome so I can challenge the SE if needed. 

 

Thank you in advance!

119B Plough Road - Bathroom areas.pdf

[Mr Punter]

I have carried out some alterations on a building and took advice from a structural engineer as to which wall were loadbearing.  We removed a wall that was thought to be non-structural only to find that it was carrying the ceiling / floor above.  Luckily fairly easy to work around, but unless you do a very intrusive (and costly) survey it is difficult to always know.

 

Yours looks like it was once a commercial building and they often have a heavier duty spec compared to resi.