SEG and FIT?

[motofox]

we had an existing 2kw array on an existing fit scheme and now have a new 4kw array too that i would have expected to claim seg on,  apparently you cannot claim for both seg and fit which is just baffling.

 

Do i have to choose one or the other ?  would it be wise to unregister the 2kw from the fit scheme which looks to be on the 15pkw rate ?

 

thanks

[Dillsue]

I think there was someone on the green building forum who was getting paid for both  FIT and SEG for two different systems. I think they had to give up the FIT deemed export payment and take a flat unit rate for all metered export. Still got the FIT generation payment based on the generation meter reading.  I think this was the set up but have a trawl round GBF to be sure

Edited May 31, 2022 by Dillsue

[SteamyTea]

If you could get a second meter fitted, could you claim both to then, and get 2 400 quid grants.

[joth]

21 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

If you could get a second meter fitted, could you claim both to then, and get 2 400 quid grants.

I was briefly thinking this too, but see a couple potential snags

- DNO likely requires a 3ph feed before fitting a second meter / MPAN. (Certainly UKPN only do this for 3ph)

- ongoing cost of 2x standing charges.

 

[RobLe]

We have a PV system on FIT, and we’re also on a V2G trial, where OVO choose when to charge and discharge the car, we pay to charge it, they pay us for *anything* we export, including solar:-).  We had to tell the fit provider to stop giving deemed export, but still fit.  I think you can get fit, stop the deemed export, then sell the actual export as measured by your main house meter, if it is good enough- ie. measures in and out accurately like ours.

[Carrerahill]

On 30/05/2022 at 21:08, motofox said:

we had an existing 2kw array on an existing fit scheme and now have a new 4kw array too that i would have expected to claim seg on,  apparently you cannot claim for both seg and fit which is just baffling.

 

Do i have to choose one or the other ?  would it be wise to unregister the 2kw from the fit scheme which looks to be on the 15pkw rate ?

 

thanks

Is SEG not the replacement for FIT?

 

Apply for SEG for the new array and see what happens?

 

Or, if it was me, I would not registrar the new array and just export it and get the money on the FIT! There are no solar police!

 

I am an advocate that all this stuff should be abolished, it should be as simple as installing a compliant solar generation system, the meters should be bi-directional - if you use a kW you pay for a kW,  if you generate a kW you export a kW and the meter rolls back 1 click. 

 

Checks and balances could be added, such as max array size under this scheme, but it would just simplify it all and do away with frankly a lot of total rubbish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Carrerahill

[SteamyTea]

9 minutes ago, Carrerahill said:

There are no solar police

While ignorance of the law is no defence, I doubt if you were sensible i.e. increased usage and not increase exports too much, no one would notice.

May be a strategy to implement over say 5 years, add 750W_p each year.

[Carrerahill]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

While ignorance of the law is no defence, I doubt if you were sensible i.e. increased usage and not increase exports too much, no one would notice.

May be a strategy to implement over say 5 years, add 750W_p each year.

Agree with all of that.

 

The whole micro-generation sector is just a lot of forms and red tape. 

 

This in my eyes just disincentives the whole thing for many and has created an industry of rip off merchants. I know someone who paid just short of 10k for 2.6kW on his roof! - easy install, usual kit. 10k? Why?

 

 

 

 

[Dillsue]

19 hours ago, Carrerahill said:

This in my eyes just disincentives the whole thing for many and has created an industry of rip off merchants. I know someone who paid just short of 10k for 2.6kW on his roof! - easy install, usual kit. 10k? Why?

 

You can buy 4kw kits for around £2k so your aquaintance chose to spend £8k on install costs. I dont think thats something you can blame on installers as he could have just said no and waited til the industry calmed down.

[motofox]

Its a frigging joke at the minute - octopus energy are telling me i cannot claim seg on the new 4kw array because the house has an old 2kw array thats registered with a fit scheme from 2012 with the previous owners, and the amount of red tape needed to change and prove ownership of the 2kw array is ridiculous. i might just disable all export to grid and buy a cheap nissan leaf and use that through the day on my zappi

[RobLe]

I'm having difficulty with the whole FIT and SEG thing now.  The history is:

4kW PV on FIT in 2012 from good energy

Nissan Leaf V2G trial in 2020 with OVO, smart meter fitted.  FIT deemed exports stopped, (FIT generation same, still good energy), metered exports started.

After the V2G trial, we swapped to Octopus - been with them a year - but haven't yet managed to get anything for export.  The car now does V2H, although I expect it will end up bricked (software locked) eventually.

 

I'm in email conversation with Octopus, but no joy so far.  Both Octopus and Ofgem state that you can simultaneously receive SEG export and FIT generation (but not export) - I think "export" and "generation" has been repeatedly confused by them, so they have written incorrectly things like "please note that you are not able to receive FIT Generation payments as well as export credit from us simultaneously" - I think this is now sorted. 

Now I have been asked for "proof that Good Energy have removed your account from the register" - which opens up so many questions in my mind!  What is this "register"?  Can Octopus not see it ?  If it is the "FIT database", then I cannot see it as an individual.  I have previously copied emails from Good energy to them which state that we receive no FIT export - is this not enough?  What would constitute proof that I have access too?  I've asked for a screenshot indicting "the problem", but GDPR prevents it, gahh!

 

Anyway, they seem to keep responding, and I am politely plodding away.  It just seems a waste of time for all concerned. 

 

I would swap all the FIT and SEG and Smart meter rubbish in a heartbeat for the older mechanical meter that could just wind back on export.  

 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, RobLe said:

 

I would swap all the FIT and SEG and Smart meter rubbish in a heartbeat for the older mechanical meter that could just wind back on export

Why.

In the golden years, FiT was around 45p/kWh, imports about 12p.

So for every unit exported you  saved 12p plus the deemed payment of about 5p.

Instead of around 22p.

 

[RobLe]

Ha!  Maybe I'd think differently if I got close to that.  We don't; we would've been better off financially if the meter wound back instead.  The old meter would've avoided a load of paperwork hassle.  It would stop iboost during the day stuff.  It would prevent charging batteries during the day, using them at night - plenty of people do this still, as they don't get paid to export.  In general, it would better align the individuals finances with what's best for the country.  

 

I'm an engineer - I should be greatful for all the jobs for my mates designing the stuff that ties me in knots I guess.

[JamesPa]

My understanding is this.

 

Your fit payments, which are based on your generation meter reading (FIT is a confusing misnomer, it's actually a payment for generation), continue based on the original capacity.  It's still at (more than whatever generous rate it was when you signed up because it increases each year for 25 years.

 

If additional capacity goes through the same generation meter a proportionation calculation is done based on former and new capacity (both must be MCS certified)

 

SEG can be based on your actual smart meter reading, and will be if you go eg with octopus.  You can get seg on your entire exported capacity provided you meet the rules set out by your supplier.

 

If seg is based on deemed export I don't know what happens if you increase capacity and the new capacity goes through the generation meter, but I'd bet it gets proportionated like the generation.

 

Lots of people give out of date advice because the rules were only changed in late 2021 (I think) to allow fit eligible installations to be expanded.

 

Best check any plans with your supplier before proceeding in case they have any particular requirements.

Edited September 6, 2023 by JamesPa

[Dillsue]

13 hours ago, JamesPa said:

 

If additional capacity goes through the same generation meter a proportionation calculation is done based on former and new capacity (both must be MCS certified)

 

If seg is based on deemed export I don't know what happens if you increase capacity and the new capacity goes through the generation meter

Extensions to a FIT system don't have to be by an MCS installer. If they are MCS installed then you can get SEG for the additional capacity. If they aren't MCS then you can't get SEG. The original FIT registered capacity continues to get FIT generation payments and the option of deemed or metered(SEG) export payments.

 

Deemed export is only available if you're on the FIT scheme. SEG is always metered through the service meter, not the generation meter.

 

Maybe changes on the way for non MCS extensions if Octopus decide to buy non MCS export......... a while off and a few hoops to jump through though

[sharpener]

On 05/09/2023 at 12:28, RobLe said:

What is this "register"? 

 

(Sorry am a bit late to this thread.)

 

It's the FIT export database. You have to de-register your FIT scheme before they will give you SEG payments otherwise there would be double counting. Ovo seem to have done this correctly. Your quarterly Good Energy payment notifications will like mine originally have shown the deemed export payments separately from the FIT and now they no longer do, I would have thought that Octopus (a) would accept this "before and after" documentation and (b) will anyway have access to the deemed export register so they can verify that Ovo have removed it.

[RobLe]

1 hour ago, sharpener said:

 

(Sorry am a bit late to this thread.)

 

It's the FIT export database. You have to de-register your FIT scheme before they will give you SEG payments otherwise there would be double counting. Ovo seem to have done this correctly. Your quarterly Good Energy payment notifications will like mine originally have shown the deemed export payments separately from the FIT and now they no longer do, I would have thought that Octopus (a) would accept this "before and after" documentation and (b) will anyway have access to the deemed export register so they can verify that Ovo have removed it.

It’s all sorted out now, Octopus have finally given in!  I’ve not done anything, other than email again and again and again, and now the SEG is going.  I can only assume the person I was emailing didn’t know what was allowed/not allowed - he finally gave in after I found and sent snips from Ofgem and Octopus which backed me up.  I think it took a long time as he sometimes mixed up export and generation when he talked about FIT, and talked about the ‘register’ without saying what it was.  Anyway, we now get FIT generation and measured SEG export, all good.  

[sharpener]

Glad you got it sorted. I am still on my original FIT tariff with GE as have been told there is no reception for a smart meter. I don''t know what will happen when the BBC finally turn off the radio teleswitch service which controls my E7 meter.

[Alan Ambrose]

FYI I’ve found I get much more informed service from Octopus phone rather than email.