Party wall agreement excavation for services

[Maria]

Hello everyone and thanks for reading. 

 

I am in the middle of building a dormer bungalow (A) in my garden.  Access to it as well as my current home (B) and one more bungalow (C) is via a private lane, between 2 properties (D) and (E).

 

To make it clear properties A, B and C are located behind the front row of bungalows with no direct access to the highway except via the little private lane belonging to C . I have right of way.

 

I initially started works a few years ago and stalled them a few times for various reasons. None of the neighbours ever mentioned anything to me, apart from the original objections at the planning stage. 

 

Now that I am well on the way the owners of D have told me that I need to serve them and the owners of E a party wall notice because I will be excavating the lane to lay services (roughly 2.5m wide) and both properties have garages sitting on each side of the lane right on the boundary. 

 

I am a novice and didn't know anything about it, but looked it up and submitted a notice. He came back,  saying it's invalid because he needs the drawings detailing plans and sections of the proposed trench location in relation to the existing structures, diameter of the excavation,  depth and a method statement. 

 

Do I have to comply with everything he asked for? I am concerned that he'll just keep asking for more information and details, potentially costing thousands and thousands. 

 

There are already services in the lane for the properties B and C, and since it's  private land there's no way of knowing where they are without doing the pit trials (ar the least). Plus potentially lots of other extra works.

 

He is an ex surveyor, so I assume he had known about the party wall notice all along and could have asked/mentioned it a few years back. Now it looks like I'm going to postpone my utilities connection dates and possibly start looking for another contractor,  as the one I agreed with isn't going to keep coming back for one little job at a time.

 

As an alternative solution,  could I potentially T off the existing supplies? My property isn't on a water meter. I assume I could potentially stick a meter for each property at my plot boundary? Could I do the same for gas? I also have an electric pole in my garden,  but for some reason the electricity board proposed to connect at highway in front of the property D.

 

Hope this makes sense and thanks for helping,

[ProDave]

Immediate thoughts.

 

He didn't raise the PW issue until you ere about to start work, because up to then it did not matter.  The concern is the service trenches could be as deep if not deeper than the garage foundations and very close to them.

 

You really need to find the locations of the services.  3 lots of water, gas electricity and possibly telecoms in a 2.5 metre road is probably going to be cosy.  You don't want to put a digger bucket through a gas pipe.

 

What have the individual utilities actually said about connection points?

 

A drawing would make it all a lot clearer.

 

 

[Temp]

24 minutes ago, Maria said:

Now that I am well on the way the owners of D have told me that I need to serve them and the owners of E a party wall notice because I will be excavating the lane to lay services (roughly 2.5m wide) and both properties have garages sitting on each side of the lane right on the boundary. 

 

If digging within 3m and deeper than the foundations of the garages then yes the Party Wall Act applies.

 

There is no penalty for not complying with the act but if they claimed your work caused damage and it all ended up in court the judge woukd take a dim view and might be more inclined to award against you.  

 

I'm not sure if moling pipes past the garages would count as excavation for the purpose of the Act but I think it would be very hard for them to claim that caused damage.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Temp

[Temp]

There is an easy way and a hard way to comply with the Act...

 

Easy way.. You give the neighbour drawings and a notification letter and they agree the work and sign a letter in reply. Template letters are in the Guide to the Party Wall Act booklet online.

 

Hard way... They refuse to agree to the works and you have to appoint surveyors to draw up a Party Wall Act Agreement. Worse case you end up paying for your surveyor, their surveyor and a third to settle any disputes if the two surveyors can't agree. The neighbours are not required to use the same surveyor so this could mean paying for as many as four surveyors.

 

43 minutes ago, Maria said:

He came back,  saying it's invalid because he needs the drawings detailing plans and sections of the proposed trench location in relation to the existing structures, diameter of the excavation,  depth and a method statement. 

 

That would be reasonable in my opinion. If it was me I would want to know how far away from my garage you were digging and how deep. 

 

If you have a contractor available ask him if he can help you make a drawings.

[Maria]

39 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Immediate thoughts.

 

He didn't raise the PW issue until you ere about to start work, because up to then it did not matter.  The concern is the service trenches could be as deep if not deeper than the garage foundations and very close to them.

 

You really need to find the locations of the services.  3 lots of water, gas electricity and possibly telecoms in a 2.5 metre road is probably going to be cosy.  You don't want to put a digger bucket through a gas pipe.

 

What have the individual utilities actually said about connection points?

 

A drawing would make it all a lot clearer.

 

 

I did start first in 2018, then stopped and restarted in 2019 and laid foundations, and then stopped until early this year.  We have removed about 500 tonnes of earth through this little lane and he certainly knew that the plan was to lay services there. I may be overthinking, but I do wonder whether he is just making it difficult by not mentioning this earlier. But I suppose he didn't have to mention at all and then could have stopped the works all together... 

 

Anyway, I was certainly going to do the trial pits before digging the whole trench up, but I was hoping I could do it at the same time. If I need to produce the drawings with exact location, it means I have to get a contractor to do the trial pits and then reinstate the lane, then (once the neighbours sign off) come back and dig up the trench to be inspected by the water board and backfill it, then come back and do the highways when the utilities are ready to connect. Finding a contractor was extremely difficult. They all seem to be super busy and pick and chose the works.

 

All utilities suggested connecting at the highway, but then, they may not necessarily know that the new build is in my garden. We've split the deeds for mortgage purposes. I've attached the drawing with the route suggested by electricity board, the rest of them follow pretty much the same route.

4133632 PLANSB.pdf

[Maria]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

 

If digging within 3m and deeper than the foundations of the garages then yes the Party Wall Act applies.

 

There is no penalty for not complying with the act but if they claimed your work caused damage and it all ended up in court the judge woukd take a dim view and might be more inclined to award against you.  

 

I'm not sure if moling pipes past the garages would count as excavation for the purpose of the Act but I think it would be very hard for them to claim that caused damage.

 

 

"3m and deeper than the foundations of the garages" The deepest point of the trench will be 750mm. I am not sure whether the foundations of the garages are above or below this level. I suppose I can't make an assumption that the garage foundations are deeper than that?

 

Moling is probably not an option provided there are existing services there. I have been told that the moles don't quite follow the straight line and I think it might have been used in the lane previously.

[ProDave]

If your deepest trench is 750mm I would first be digging 2 trial pits in the lane next to the 2 garages to determine their foundation depth.  If >750mm then happy days, just notify them you are not digging deeper than their foundation and PW act does not apply.

 

I think this is going to be a difficult connection, you want to get all the services in in one go, and you need to start by digging a trial trench at both ends to find all the services.  If they are not in the same place at both ends then assume they are not in a straight line.  The lane is going to be out of action while you do this, so you need the cooperation of the other owner or you need a lot of road plates to keep it in use during works.

[Mr Punter]

There is nothing particularly unusual about requesting plans, sections and method statements.  Without these the potential impact of the works on the neighbours properties cannot be assessed.

 

I agree with @ProDave that this looks a right pain to do.  If the owners of C kick up a fuss about lack of access / egress during works, especially in emergency, it could really mess things up for you.

 

If topography allows there should be no problem in the new property sharing the drainage.

[PeterW]

18 hours ago, Maria said:

The deepest point of the trench will be 750mm

 It will be deeper and wider than you expect. It will also be more complex as you can’t self lay gas or electric so you will need multiple trenches. They will also require the 3 main services to be separated by at least 650mm across a trench, and the drainage may need to be at least 1200mm down if the BCO deems it to be a roadway. This may cause you some serious issues with invert levels, so you may want to consider how you could connect drainage to your existing property. 
 

Is there any way you can lose the gas connection and just go with electric and water in the lane ..? You then have a chance at 750mm straight down the centre 350mm apart and limited risk to the properties either side. 

[Maria]

13 hours ago, ProDave said:

If your deepest trench is 750mm I would first be digging 2 trial pits in the lane next to the 2 garages to determine their foundation depth.  If >750mm then happy days, just notify them you are not digging deeper than their foundation and PW act does not apply.

 

I think this is going to be a difficult connection, you want to get all the services in in one go, and you need to start by digging a trial trench at both ends to find all the services.  If they are not in the same place at both ends then assume they are not in a straight line.  The lane is going to be out of action while you do this, so you need the cooperation of the other owner or you need a lot of road plates to keep it in use during works.

Yes, at the moment the plan is to excavate up to 750mm. I came across the drawing in this forum, and was thinking to do similar. The only exception is telecom, this will not have to be dragged through the lane. The connection point is near the boundry between A and C. BT will sort out a wayleave and connect.

 

At the moment the owners of the lane aren't living in their property, so don't need a daily access. We have discussed that the lane will be out of action for a few days, they are fine with it.

 

[Maria]

3 hours ago, PeterW said:

 It will be deeper and wider than you expect. It will also be more complex as you can’t self lay gas or electric so you will need multiple trenches. They will also require the 3 main services to be separated by at least 650mm across a trench, and the drainage may need to be at least 1200mm down if the BCO deems it to be a roadway. This may cause you some serious issues with invert levels, so you may want to consider how you could connect drainage to your existing property. 
 

Is there any way you can lose the gas connection and just go with electric and water in the lane ..? You then have a chance at 750mm straight down the centre 350mm apart and limited risk to the properties either side. 

The property will be on private drainage. It's too far away from the main sewer. Would 650mm separation still apply? I thought it was less.

[Maria]

13 hours ago, ProDave said:

If your deepest trench is 750mm I would first be digging 2 trial pits in the lane next to the 2 garages to determine their foundation depth.  If >750mm then happy days, just notify them you are not digging deeper than their foundation and PW act does not apply.

 

I think this is going to be a difficult connection, you want to get all the services in in one go, and you need to start by digging a trial trench at both ends to find all the services.  If they are not in the same place at both ends then assume they are not in a straight line.  The lane is going to be out of action while you do this, so you need the cooperation of the other owner or you need a lot of road plates to keep it in use during works.

He also mentioned 45 degree rule, would this apply if the garage foundations are deeper than 750mm?

[Mr Punter]

In my experience the utility firms don't strictly enforce the separation distances where it is not practical.  Water like to be 750mm deep, even though they have some of theirs at 400mm.  Otherwise you can mostly do your own thing.