Outline Planning Application

[southlakes]

My day to day job involves some pretty complex tasks. I'd like to think of myself as a fairly smart guy, and a faster learner.... but my god this planning application has got me beat!

 

We have a small plot of land, that Im looking to get outline planning for, to simply sell with outline planning.....rather than just selling it as bare land.

 

My initial thought was to put our ideas down, and have a pre-planning application meeting without the council, to discuss the best way forward, and understand the best type of persmission to seek.  

 

Sadly, South Lakes are no longer provider people with pre-planning advice, as they are short staffed.  So this leaves me, as a complete newbee to this, slightly uneducated, and confused about the process.  Im hoping some maybe be able to either take this on for us or offer advice.

 

I have spoken to some local Architect practices...but their fees start at £4k for submitting outline planning....which we cannot jusitify or afford. As above, we are not looking to develop ourselves, just gain outline planning.

 

The first decision we have to make is between outline planning with SOME matters reserved, or with ALL matters reserved, and Im unsure which we should do.   Beyond that, as I understand it, we then have to submit a red-lined OS map showing location plot, complete the application form, and provide a design and access statement.  

 

The first thing we did a couple of months ago was have some draft plans for a 4 bed property on the site drawn, thking this was needed for outline planning, but I suspect this wont actually be needed these.

 

If anyone can offer any advice on what would be the best way for us to proceed to gain outline permission, or indeed if anyone who can suggest anyone who could submit an application for us?

 

 

 

[Mr Punter]

The outline applications often consist of a just site and location plan, marked up with the indicative location of the proposed dwellings.

 

Have a look online at your LPA outline applications that have been approved and take your lead from these.  I have done a couple of successful full applications in the past and I have no formal training in this.

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, southlakes said:

...

If anyone can offer any advice on what would be the best way for us to proceed to gain outline permission, or indeed if anyone who can suggest anyone who could submit an application for us?

 

Here's a start. Network: with the emphasis on work.

 

Look at the South Lakes (SLDC)  planning site and review the applications which broadly match the size of plot that you have to offer. Look at the reasons for refusal and acceptance.  That will give you a good steer as to what's acceptable and what isn't - but most importantly - in each case - why.

 

Back a few estate agents into a corner. Listen. Ditto local Councillors who have responsibility for Planning or who have been on the planning subcommittee. If they're anything like ours, look at their own record of building locally. Include Permitted development in that search too. Garages can easily be re-jigged as houses.

 

Go and listen in on Council Planning Committee meetings. Look at who says what and research those people thoroughly. What's the politics of it all? What's the micropolitics of it if you can wheedle that out somehow.

 

Know who is selling what land locally and where it is. Talk to local builders. From memory, there are a couple of key builders up here aren't there?  Look at houses with scaffolding outside them. Who is the contractor? 

 

Look at the Local Plan.  SLDC have a very informative mapping tool.

 

Yes, it's a lot of work. But it will lead to informed, evidence-based conversations. You are much harder top fob off if you can say why you want what you want for  reasons  you can evidence.

 

Nobutt a steep larnin' curve is 'iss bildin lark, lad.

 

Or alternatively, take up golf.

Good luck.

Ian

 

 

[CharlieKLP]

4K is so much! I didn’t think there was that much work in an outline planning application. It’s 3 drawings maximum. 

 

Do you have the OS plan downloaded (I use mapserve) already? I guess you just need someone with CAD to draw the boundary in and stick a house footprint on the site. You can keep all other matters reserved like appearance etc. maybe you need a flood report.
 

If you want an architectural reference in your area, I know of Day Cummins https://day-cummins.co.uk/

They seemed like nice people there not too expensive, but it was a while ago I did work experience there.

[southlakes]

Thank you for the kind replies.  Ill certainly be actioning some of these points.

 

I am still struggling with the terminology of 'some matters reserved' and 'all matters reserved' and which of the two options we should choose.

 

Does RESERVED mean that within your application you have agreed those 'matters', or is it the oposite.

 

For example, if the application has 'Drainage' reserved, does that mean drainage needs to be revisted on a further application, or does it mean the matters of drainage are included in this application?

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

48 minutes ago, southlakes said:

...

Does RESERVED mean that within your application you have agreed those 'matters', or is it the oposite.

...

 

This site is very helpful. It summarises the issue accurately and links to further resources. A goldmine for you .....

[bassanclan]

I'm going to plug the book again - the planning game Ken Dijksman (i should really see if I can get him to give me some royalties!)

Get it out the library and then you will know so much more

[CharlieKLP]

It means like, “reserved for later”. Literally like the planners saying ‘I’ll reserve judgement on that’.
 

it means you don’t have to sort it now. I agree it is a stupid phrase to use.
 

whenever you get a planning application approval, even a full planning, you end up with ‘reserved matters’. Probably about 5-10 of these rule things, for example you will need to send off material samples for the planners to agree before you start building. 
 

so it doesn’t really matter, just make them all reserved, it won’t be your problem when whoever builds gets the land. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by CharlieKLP

[southlakes]

Thank you guys that is all SO helpful.

 

So from our perspective, in terms of gaining outline planning permission, it would be easier to go for ALL matters reserved, rather than SOME matters reserved....and let the people actually building the house after the buy the land deal with those matters?

[ToughButterCup]

Think of your customer. All Matters Reserved gives the most flexibility.  And your workload: quicker, cheaper.

[Ferdinand]

9 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

Think of your customer. All Matters Reserved gives the most flexibility.  And your workload: quicker, cheaper.

 

On the other hand there is a tradeoff of money vs risk.

 

If you sell it AMM and your buyer thinks that x, y or z may take extra money to sort, then they will assume the max and take that off their potential offer.

 

Ones that could scare people are around access, what is underground (eg insecure soil, mineshafts etc), possibly trees which may get a TPO and are key to the development, contamination, cost of power or sewerage.

 

You need to consider each, and what it will cost you to remove that risk, then perhaps select the ones that you consider will benefit your sale price by significantly more than the cost of removing / reducing the risk.

 

Also if you have more informal information such as proof of usage for 50 years (so unlikely to be contaminated), then that can be of benefit.

 

As an example, when my family sold a bruiser of a listed dwelling where "listed" would scare people, we had a full structural survey done for £500 as part of our sales package.

 

The last plot I did I had at outline AMM except for the Entrance.

 

 

[Ferdinand]

The size of what you have outline for is another important factor.

[CharlieKLP]

@Ferdinand makes good points.
 

I think I’d still go “All Matters Reserved”, just with my knowledge of the self builders who I’ve worked with. I suppose it depends on the site, but maybe access is quite important, knowing the lake district.

you need; 

Form, payment

 

OS plan with a red boundary, 1:1250

 

Site plan with roof/footprint 1:200 

 

I suppose, at a minimum. 
 

I don’t see why that would cost 4K, you can do the first one yourself then go to the design/planning service if you don’t get anywhere. You definitely don’t need an architect though, if it’s not a house for you.

Edited March 31, 2022 by CharlieKLP