How do I know if CE mark is genuine?

[jamiehamy]

Hi all, 

 

I'm still looking at light switches,  sockets etc. I've got a quote from Mk for glass effect hardware,  all matching that is eye watering. 

 

I've also ordered various other similar products to try,  a nameless one,  Retro touch and Ilumos from Hartington Heath. The iLumos range is really nice,  the switches and funky Led downlighters feel like good quality.. Except. 

 

For all,  the packaging gives the game away that these are made in China. One states this on the box in fairness. But the spelling on the boxes and instructions is appalling,  and the packaging is as l ways very generic and not brand specific in some cases which leads me to question whether the CE or Rohs stamp is valid. 

Is there an easy way to validate this? They are all being sold as compliant but the crappy packaging makes me wonder.  

 

Thanks,  Jamie

[AliG]

I am about to order some lights from Aliexpress so this got me thinking.

 

There is no central repository of CE marks, so no way to check if it is genuine.

 

Some high voltage products may come with a certificate that you can then verify with the issuer.

 

Even if a CE mark is genuine it only states that the product complies with EU  safety directives. It is no guarantee that each individual product was made in compliance with the original design and there is no requirement to test products.

 

I think quite a few people on here have bought light fittings that were incorrectly grounded.

 

Best thing may be to test individual fittings if worried, or at least  some of them.

Edited May 7, 2017 by AliG

[ADLIan]

Ask for the manufacturers declaration of performance (DoP) - this should state the product meets all necessary requirments/standards, identify the products even down to serial number and give the manufacturer details, name and address. I suppose even these can be faked but if you have a problems getting the DoP then alarm bells should ring.

I believe Trading Standards are the policemen for CE Marking - best of luck taking action against any naughty importers/manufacturers via this route.

[jamiehamy]

7 hours ago, AliG said:

I am about to order some lights from Aliexpress so this got me thinking.

 

There is no central repository of CE marks, so no way to check if it is genuine.

 

Some high voltage products may come with a certificate that you can then verify with the issuer.

 

Even if a CE mark is genuine it only states that the product complies with EU  safety directives. It is no guarantee that each individual product was made in compliance with the original design and there is no requirement to test products.

 

I think quite a few people on here have bought light fittings that were incorrectly grounded.

 

Best thing may be to test individual fittings if worried, or at least  some of them.

My spark says he's not comfortable with some of them because although they have the markings,  nothing on the unit or box tells you where it was made or by whom. The warranty offering is a bit worthless if you don't know who will fix it. 

 

I might be being paranoid but one thing I really don't want it semi expensive electrical good that fail after a year when I should just have bought the MK stuff.  Tricky... 

[Onoff]

So you've tried going off piste, got a few samples and on a number of fronts they fall down. You have reservations as does your sparks.

 

A wise man once said:

 

"You'll be wishing you fitted good old MK when it comes to replacing the odd one a few years down the line! "

 

 

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I hate to say it, but I suspect that the majority of CE marks on Chinese stuff are fake, particularly electrical goods. 

 

I've given examples here and on Ebuild of particularly bad stuff, like the LED floodlights, purchased from, and branded as coming from, a UK retailer, that had alloy cases with the protective earth lead just dangling loose inside.  I've lost count of the number of 2 core cable items, marked as being double insulated (one square inside another mark) that had exposed metal that was part of the internal case, so again they were fraudulently marked and should have had a 3 core cable, with the exposed metal earthed.

 

Even the big names get fooled.  I bought some 230V GU10 LED downlights from a well-known DIY shed, only to find that they had exposed contacts on the front that, depending on the random way you fitted them, were either connected to the supply line or neutral - there was a 50% chance that the exposed metal on the front would be at 230V when turned on.  To give the store credit, when I took the lamps back, and showed them the problem, they immediately took them all off the shelves.  These lamps, and their packaging, all carried the CE mark, indicating that they had been approved as being safe under the LV Directive, and it was clearly fake.

 

I make a point now of thoroughly checking any item of Chinese electrical equipment to make sure that, as far as I can tell, it complies with the LV Directive.  It's harder to check if it also complies with the EMC Directive (another requirement for CE marking) but there are enough tales here and on Ebuild of radio interference from things like LED power supplies to convince me that many are non-compliant.  If they are CE marked and non-compliant with the EMC Directive, then there is a good chance they are non-compliant with the LV Directive too, I think.

Edited May 8, 2017 by JSHarris

[jamiehamy]

Pic of downlight... 

[jamiehamy]

Pic of box!  Decision made - MK. 

[Jeremy Harris]

Good call!

[Onoff]

Chinese Equipment.

 

Chinglish instructions!

 

[jamiehamy]

My friend says the Chinese claim it stands for Chinese Export. How wholesalers interpret it is their lookout! 

[Onoff]

48 minutes ago, jamiehamy said:

Pic of box!  Decision made - MK. 

 

So sad isn't it. The kit might in fact be fine but when the discerning buyer sees that inattention to detail you can't help but worry it's carrried through to the actual kit.

[Onoff]

3 minutes ago, jamiehamy said:

My friend says the Chinese claim it stands for Chinese Export. How wholesalers interpret it is their lookout! 

 

Hence my highlighting the C & E!

[Temp]

Anyone would think the similarity was deliberate.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Temp

[Jeremy Harris]

Often the Chinese stuff, as in the pic in the example here:

doesn't even pretend to use the correct CE mark, in that pic they've just used the letters CE in a normal typeface, so the item has never been properly designed, tested or approved.

Edited May 8, 2017 by JSHarris

[jamiehamy]

4 minutes ago, Temp said:

Anyone would think the similarity was deliberate.

Goodness knows what mine is! I'll check the others when I get home. 

[Temp]

As I recall the use of the correct CE mark is itself a requirement of CE marking. So if the mark is incorrect it doesn't comply for that reason alone.

 

Seems the China Export mark is bogus..

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking

China Export[edit]

A logo very similar to CE marking has been alleged to stand for China Export because some Chinese manufacturers apply it to their products.^[17] However, the European Commission says that this is a misconception. The matter was raised at the European Parliament in 2008.^[18] The Commission responded that it was unaware of the existence of any "Chinese Export" mark and that, in its view, the incorrect application of the CE marking on products was unrelated to incorrect depictions of the symbol, although both practices took place. It had initiated the procedure to register CE marking as a Community collective trademark, and was in discussion with Chinese authorities to ensure compliance with European legislation.^[19]

 

 

 

 

[Onoff]

I was, years back directly involved in the importing and CE marking of equipment from "Down Under". The Machinery Directive came into it. As I recall (memory's getting vaguer by the day) I had to submit the supplier's Technical File together with their Declaration of Conformity (to our BS EN standards). There was also I think a Certificate of Incorporation that I had to do that listed the foreign stuff together with EU sourced parts. This all went to an Approved Body and we paid about a grand per project as they were all different. They lodged it for 10 Years. Nobody as far as I know ever looked at all the calcs etc. Had CE stickers made by a local vinyl print shop. Think  I just said ""Like on the back of a calculator". Oddly enough when I made contact with the Approved Body wondering what happened as the 10 years was now up they just said they would continue to hold the documentation ad infinitum, without charge!

[iSelfBuild]

5 hours ago, jamiehamy said:

Goodness knows what mine is! I'll check the others when I get home. 

That's the Chinese engineering/export stamp that manufactures who follow the rules use to mislead. Doesn't really help as some Chinese suppliers will put the official one on the product as well - which is against the law... 

 

Ask for the suppliers certificate of conformity and ISO 9001 accreditation.

 

In reality nearly everything is made in China and the product from China is not necessarily bad. They will make whatever you carefully specify and deliver a quality to the distributor based on the demands and inspection. Its up to the supplier to release a product into the market that is fit for purpose. So many outsourcing goes on over there and there is a lot of 'agents' so definitely a tricky one to manage. 

 

 

 

 

[jamiehamy]

50 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said:

In reality nearly everything is made in China and the product from China is not necessarily bad. They will make whatever you carefully specify and deliver a quality to the distributor based on the demands and inspection. 

 

 

 

I do agree - I've had some appalling Chinese stuff before but this is really nicely finished and feels like good quality - although I wonder how long the transformer things will last. Problem is by electrician won't warrant it and not happy fitting - and I quite agree with him. If we get a problem with units, will be ever get replacements easily? I've just found out an Elements double USB Glass socket from MK is... £72  Maybe I just go cheap Chinese! lol

 

 

[Temp]

On ‎5‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 14:42, Onoff said:

I was, years back directly involved in the importing and CE marking of equipment from "Down Under". The Machinery Directive came into it. As I recall (memory's getting vaguer by the day) I had to submit the supplier's Technical File together with their Declaration of Conformity (to our BS EN standards). There was also I think a Certificate of Incorporation that I had to do that listed the foreign stuff together with EU sourced parts. This all went to an Approved Body and we paid about a grand per project as they were all different.

 

As I understand it importers and resellers also have to assure themselves that products meet CE. One way to do that is to do what you did and have the manufacturers paperwork checked out. The problem is with smaller importers who either don't know they are liable or cant be bothered.