UKPN vs ASHP!

[ReedRichards]

If you opt for a Gas Boiler, consider a "Low Temperature" boiler.

[Tony K]

Thanks @joth I have pushed back on UKPN, and I do have a consistent point of contact there. I've argued that they have to stand by the quote they gave me for connection originally, having demonstrated that they were made fully aware of my intention to have an ASHP. I've also asked them to look at whether a different design would work.

 

I'll investigate the implications of wet UFH rather than electrical. Specifically, comparative costs and effect on screed depth, but you make a strong case regarding adaptability. 

 

Thanks also @Susie I've never heard of either option you list, but will look into both now.

 

[ReedRichards]

26 minutes ago, Tony K said:

I'll investigate the implications of wet UFH rather than electrical. Specifically, comparative costs and effect on screed depth, but you make a strong case regarding adaptability. 

 

 

You need to be absolutely clear that electrical UFH has nothing whatsoever to do with heat pumps or boilers.  It runs entirely on electricity, you get about 1 kW of heat for every 1 kW of electricity (a little heat goes down and is wasted) so it is very expensive to run.  With a heat pump you would get 3 to 4 kW of heat for every kW of electricity.  With an oil or gas boiler you are heating with a much cheaper fuel.   

[J1mbo]

11 hours ago, Tony K said:

 I was originally drawn to an ASHP because it protected me from rising energy bills.

It absolutely does not. Electricity at my location has doubled in two years. It is widely expected to be getting another 50% hike in April. Quite why the press are so blinkered on electricity is beyond me.

[SteamyTea]

Regarding the DNO refusing permission to connect a heat pump.  They are not stupid, they know that nearly all ASHPs are inverter driven, and that customers will quote the maximum thermal energy output.  Because of this confusion they can legitimately claim that a local upgrade is needed, an upgrade that probable needs doing anyway, but at the customers expense, rather than their own.

Call them up and say you know what they are up to, give them the model spec and I am sure they will let you connect it.

 

  

13 hours ago, Susie said:

Willis heater,

These, as Susie says, are just immersion heaters.  They have the advantage of being cheap and easy to install.  You may be able to use them in a similar manner, in conjunction with your concrete slab, as a storage heater on E7.  Just a case of running the numbers and seeing what comes out.

The thing is with a wet UFH system is that it really needs to be put in the slab, hard to do after the slab is poured.  You do need a decent amount of properly installed, insulation under that slab, you don't want to heat the ground under your house.

  

13 hours ago, Susie said:

sunamp

A very expensive way to store DHW, but they are relatively small for the energy they do store.  There is also a question mark of their reliability and longevity.  I like the technology behind them, but seems excessive to store a few kWh of thermal energy.  And you will need a water softener if you are in a harder water area (not a problem in Cornwall, well not my granity end anyway).

Edited January 6, 2022 by SteamyTea

[Gone West]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

(not a problem in Cornwall, well not my granity end anyway).

Not my sandstone end either.

[JohnMo]

15 hours ago, Susie said:

I’m still at the early stages myself but have been reading up on all my options. As you are only 100m2 have you considered a Willis heater, I had never heard of one but in short it’s like an immersion heater coil plumbed in line with the UFH pipes at the manifold. Like I say it’s new to me so best looking up on this site, quite a few users have one.  I’m considering this for my heating and a sunamp (again look up on here as I did if not familiar) for my DHW.

 

 

If you go this route do it on E7 or similar low tarrif

[SteamyTea]

40 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

If you go this route do it on E7 or similar low tarrif

20 years ago, my night rate was around a third of the day rate.

Now it is over half the day rate.

E7 was designed for nuclear power, which did not happen at the scale first envisioned.

I am not sure that there will be an E7 system continuing for much longer.  More going to be dynamic pricing, which will be fun as people struggle to grasp the concept of E7.

Think my E7 time window as changed recently, must check.

Edited January 6, 2022 by SteamyTea

[ReedRichards]

Sunamp

 

3 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

 

A very expensive way to store DHW, but they are relatively small for the energy they do store.  There is also a question mark of their reliability and longevity.  I like the technology behind them, but seems excessive to store a few kWh of thermal energy.  And you will need a water softener if you are in a harder water area (not a problem in Cornwall, well not my granity end anyway).

 

You will also need a special version specific to a heat pump; their standard Phase Change Material changes phase at too high a temperature to work with a heat pump.

[joth]

1 hour ago, ReedRichards said:

Sunamp

 

 

You will also need a special version specific to a heat pump; their standard Phase Change Material changes phase at too high a temperature to work with a heat pump.

It's even worse than that: you need a specific version of their controller hardware designed and tested to work with the specific heat pump make/model being installed. They literally build and ship different hardware depending on what it is going to be connected to. About as far from "drop in replacement" for a hot water tank as you can imagine.

Goodness knows what happens when the heat pump controller FW is over-the-air updated and a corresponding change is needed to the SunAmp controller to continue to work with it. Shipping out a new revision of their hardware appears to be their state of the art.