Output of timber-only UFH systems?

[markocosic]

I'm reconsidering UFH - in a timber build that I don't want to add to the foundation loads on.

 

1) For comfort (floor warmer than ambient air rather than cooler than ambient air)

2) For system volume (the heat pump is a fixed speed unit that wants a minimum system volume to work with)

 

I'm interested in this style of UFH:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANxHZ17AVGA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4jShqK6qNQ

 

Anybody ever done one like this and care to share their experience?

 

- Floors are timber (ground 22 mm OSB on on joists at 600 centres; 1st floor currently just joists on 600 centres and wouldn't need heating but could be used as an additional emitter for bulk heat / just for the heck of it to see how things perform without any consequence if they don't work well)

 

- Surface covering will either be engineered oak, actual oak parquet, or pine boards, depending on how the mood takes SWMBO

 

- I'm not needing huge output (10-20W/m2 would heat the place nevermind take the edge off the floor temperature)

 

[Adsibob]

16 minutes ago, markocosic said:

I'm reconsidering UFH - in a timber build that I don't want to add to the foundation loads on.

 

1) For comfort (floor warmer than ambient air rather than cooler than ambient air)

2) For system volume (the heat pump is a fixed speed unit that wants a minimum system volume to work with)

 

I'm interested in this style of UFH:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANxHZ17AVGA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4jShqK6qNQ

 

Anybody ever done one like this and care to share their experience?

 

- Floors are timber (ground 22 mm OSB on on joists at 600 centres; 1st floor currently just joists on 600 centres and wouldn't need heating but could be used as an additional emitter for bulk heat / just for the heck of it to see how things perform without any consequence if they don't work well)

 

- Surface covering will either be engineered oak, actual oak parquet, or pine boards, depending on how the mood takes SWMBO

 

- I'm not needing huge output (10-20W/m2 would heat the place nevermind take the edge off the floor temperature)

 

Why would you use chipboard based boards? There are better insulators than chipboard, such as extruded polystyrene. Slightly more expensive in terms of initial outlay, but should save you money in the long run.

[ProDave]

New build or retro fit?

 

What insulation is under the floor?

[markocosic]

Ground floor built already.

 

22 mm OSB bubble GLUED to within an inch of its life (so not coming up) and screwed.

 

245 mm joists underneath with full fill of mineral wool.

 

I'd router the grooves. Painful...but short work compared with the 7km+ of grooves in the written roof/wall cladding.

 

Mezzanine just 195 mm joists at the moment. Only asks for 170 mm structurally so could also notch the tops if I wanted to then use a finish for that could dish the 600 mm spacing (e.g thicker t&g pine boards) which if glued largely makes up for the strength loss on notching anyway.

[ProDave]

Do something similar to what i did in our utility room.  This is just a mock up when i was working out the detail, I can't immediately find a picture of the actual thing.

so you have a chipboard floor down screwed and glued.

 

Cut strips of chipboard to match your pipe spacing and lay them across the floor so they are spanning joist to joist (on top of the chipboard.  Under floor heating pipes with aluminium spreader plates laid on top.

 

Final floor covering laid over that, shown in this mockup with a strip of chipboard, this will be your engineered floor boards.

[markocosic]

What do you have over the top of it as a final finish, and how does it perform in terms of output and any clicking and clacking as the pipework expands and contracts?

[Bitpipe]

@HerbJ used a low profile on floor wet UFH system on upper timber floors in his build from memory.

 

I have wet UFH on my ground timber floor - basement underneath so GF is suspended timber joists with 16mm screwed & glued OSB. I did manage to get spreader plates down onto the joists before decking but the idea @ProDave has above looks good.

 

On top of the OBS I have two layers of ply (12mm & 9mm) plus the resin floor system (4mm crumb mat, & 6mm resin) so it's quite a sandwich but all heats up perfectly well with a low temp system (35^o).

 

 

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, markocosic said:

What do you have over the top of it as a final finish, and how does it perform in terms of output and any clicking and clacking as the pipework expands and contracts?

Here is a picture of it in progress. You see the UFH pipes with the spreader plates suspended on the strips of chipboard flooring, then on top was 18mm ply, glued and screwed to hell then the tiles.

 

The bits with UFH missed out, on the right is where the row of units will go, and on the left, there is an area left out where there is provision for one day fitting a shower (and then dividing the room in two) so no UFH where the shower might one day be installed.

[HerbJ]

7 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

@HerbJ used a low profile on floor wet UFH system on upper timber floors in his build from memory

 Good memory - I used the Jupiter System on my 1st Floor. It was relatively expensive but has worked really well. The Jupiter Heating System  is  as attached.  It is installed on the top of  22mm OSB flooring, with engineered wood floor finish to bedrooms and porcelain tiles to bathrooms.

 

The Ground Floor was UFH installed in the insulated raft foundation when it was poured (an MBC installation) and not heating was installed on the 2nd Floor.

 

ideal_eco_constructions.pdf Installation-Guide-IDEAL-ECO.pdf InstallingTimberwithJUPITERUFH.pdf System_Eco.pdf System_Ideal.pdf

[markocosic]

Bringing this back to life with notes to self:

 

I think @HerbJ your approach makes sense.

 

If one *really* wants to do afterthought UFH on an OSB floor without buildup then one could router in grooves for aluminium spreaders:

https://www.santechnikos-centras.lt/prekiu-katalogas/vidaus-vamzdynai-ir-jungtys/grindinio-sildymo-vamzdziai-ir-jungtys/sauso-tipo-grindinis-sildymas

 

It effectively becomes this setup; albeit with me hoping that 22 mm OSB instead of the planks with ~5 mm left behind plus engineered wooden floor planks on top will provide enough meat on 600 mm centres:

 

 

 

 

200 @ €682 is 24 m2 on 120 mm centres (plus €80 in pipe for 22 litres of system volume)

https://www.santechnikos-centras.lt/aliuminio-plokste-su-vienu-grioveliu-mepafloor-16-17-mm-120-1000-040-mm

200 @ €736 is 30 m2 on 150 mm centres (plus €80 in pipe for 22 litres of system volume)

https://www.santechnikos-centras.lt/aliuminio-plokste-su-vienu-grioveliu-mepafloor-16-17-mm-150-1000-040-mm 

200 @ €1382 is 78 m2 on 195 mm centres (plus €160 in pipe for 44 litres of system volume)

https://www.santechnikos-centras.lt/aliuminio-plokste-su-dvejais-grioveliais-mepafloor-16-17-mm-390-1000-040-mm

 

Pipe patterns wise I'd be forced to do meander (can only really run pipe across joists not along them, a but would aim to put the hottest bits by the largest windows

https://www.multipipe.co.uk/ufh-patterns