One more pipe layout...

[Adam2]

Wunda have done my plan and I made a couple of small changes but they didn't respond to my question about handling solar gain. Each floor has an area facing S/W with a 6m opening which I expect will mean that the part of the floor closest to the glazing will heat up through the solar gain - I figured that if I had the loops running across the room (90 degrees to current plan) then these loops would turn off earlier so saving energy rather than as they are now which will continue to add heat into the solar heated area. Maybe this is such a small impact I shouldn't waste time on it - appreciate your thoughts on that or any other observations.

 

Pipes are 150 centres, heating by ASHP, concrete floors and ICF wall construction

 

 

 

05054 Tom PIPE LAYOUT - A1.pdf

[Dan F]

26 minutes ago, Adam2 said:

I figured that if I had the loops running across the room (90 degrees to current plan) then these loops would turn off earlier so saving energy rather than as they are now which will continue to add heat into the solar heated area.

 

One option is to do as you suggest and use Salus auto-balancing actuators on each loop.  You shouldn't need to expliclty turn off the loops next to the window, but rather the actuators will automatically reduce the flow in these loops based on the return temperature.  Wunda sell these actuators.

 

The other way of thinking about it though, is that the layout they proposed may do a better job of distributing heat across the whole areas as all loops will continue to circulate water.

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Dan F

[Adam2]

47 minutes ago, Dan F said:

The other way of thinking about it though, is that the layout they proposed may do a better job of distributing heat across the whole areas as all loops will continue to circulate water.

Yes I think I was at one time aiming for that - may be best to stick with this.

 

The auto-balancing actuators are in the plan ?

 

I have noticed one improvement - the lower ground (with plant room + utility), I can probably distribute the the congestion in the hallway to reduce Loop 2-2 and instead use that loop in the WC so removing loop 2-1

[NewToAllOfThis]

Why do all the designs I have seen run the pipes as what I understand is is called Single Serpentine, rather than the Double Serpentine or Concentric Layout.

 

To me Single layout doesn't seem to distribute the heat evenly or is there so little change in water temperature from when it enters to leaves a loop?

[Marvin]

42 minutes ago, NewToAllOfThis said:

Why do all the designs I have seen run the pipes as what I understand is is called Single Serpentine, rather than the Double Serpentine or Concentric Layout.

 

To me Single layout doesn't seem to distribute the heat evenly or is there so little change in water temperature from when it enters to leaves a loop?

+1

Concentric if possible seems the best to me....

[Adam2]

What kind of in wall temp sensors are people using/rexommending? Wunda provide floor temp probes but I was planning to put in the wall behind plasterboard but concerned will be slow to respond.

[Dan F]

1 hour ago, Adam2 said:

What kind of in wall temp sensors are people using/rexommending? Wunda provide floor temp probes but I was planning to put in the wall behind plasterboard but concerned will be slow to respond.

 

I have temp sensors in each room (part of Loxone light switch) as well as 1-wire temperature probes in the slab in each room. Advantage of the having temperature probes in the slab is they give more direct feedback and can help ensure the floor slab isn't heated too much or is too cold (to avoid condensation).   Do you know how you will control UDF and/or if you'll use any home automation of any kind?  Depending on this you may want a different type of temperature sensor.   

Edited November 9, 2021 by Dan F

[Adam2]

Thanks @Dan F planning to keep HA separate really so wanting the air temp sensors only to control the UFH. It'll be lowish temp so no risk (AFAIK) of excess heat in floor if air temp sensor used. If I use for cooling in the UFH I would have thought the lowest temp we'd run in there would be ~15 degrees to avoid condensation issues as much as we can.

 

My question really is if the Wunda floor probes can be used in the air - the chap I'm dealing with couldn't say. Not sure why they wouldn't be OK but would be great to know

[dpmiller]

Air probes generally need a bit of damping to slow their response to draughts and sunlight and such. Putting it in a wall housing should suffice, but there are other tricks used like sticking the probe into a hole in a pingpong ball...

[Adam2]

Ahh OK - in general I'll aim to have them neat the led ceiling coffer lights or at least somewhere out of sunlight/drafts etc but will stick a protective thing over it if in doubt