Heat Pump Water Heater - any good?

[JonnyW]

Hello,

 

I am looking to install a heat pump water heater and I was wondering if anyone uses one in their home?

 

I have looked into a few different options but not many local wholesalers have any experience with them. I have looked at the likes of Dimplex Edel, Valiant AroSTOR, Ecocent or Clivet Aqua.

 

Would love to hear your thoughts and whether they are reliable etc. Thanks

[tonyshouse]

Heat pumps are most efficient at lower delta T’s lower difference between source and delivery temperature. So to get to 50C efficiency is not so good. 
 

most likely an immersion will be incorporated to raise temperature the last bit.

 

I want one but can’t find one small or cheap enough. 

[Thedreamer]

I have a joule aero.

 

Works really for us (family of four).

 

Never used the backup dual immersion heat, just rely on the heat pump. It was cheap to install and cheap to run.

 

Why it works well for us?

 

Our house is a self build completed last year.  Good insulation and airtightness.

The cylinder is a better quality than others cylinders

Noise is not an issue, we have the cylinder in our utility room inside a cupboard. You barely hear it in the kitchen

 

 

[JonnyW]

Thanks for the replies!

 

@Thedreamer - great to hear a good review about that model. The Joule one does seem to be very good quality. I will look into that one further. What max temp do you let the heat pump achieve?

[Thedreamer]

14 minutes ago, JonnyW said:

Thanks for the replies!

 

@Thedreamer - great to hear a good review about that model. The Joule one does seem to be very good quality. I will look into that one further. What max temp do you let the heat pump achieve?

 

We set it at 50.

 

Over the last year I have tinkered with the settings to achieve the best set-up for us. One approach I have found is when the tank has heavy use for an occasional bath. I leave the hot water in the bath, the moist warm air disappears up the the duct and is recovered into the system. 

 

Generally these exhaust air source heat pumps don't have the best reputation as they have been used for heating in poorer insulated houses. I have also heard of cylinders made of poorer materials failing but Joule seem to have a good reputation for making cylinders.

 

I wouldn't use our system for heating. But I have found if you self build properly you don't need much in the way of heating. I am always surprised with the number of self builders that use larger external heat pumps.

 

Currently it's 19.5 in the house and 5 outside and I have not had any heating for three or four days.

 

[JonnyW]

I only need it for water heating as it is actually for a commercial setting to replace a direct electric water cylinder. Thanks for the help. The Joule one seems hard to source and doesn't seem to be online to buy but I will ask around. Thanks!! 

[SteamyTea]

6 minutes ago, JonnyW said:

to replace a direct electric water cylinder

You may be able to get away with a cheap, 'non inverter' type then.  

[gascar]

It needs a mini zeolite recycler. You dry the stuff out with the low grade heat, then "Zorb" the zeolite by wetting it, and it gets very hot. Not heard of a small one yet, have only seen a setup  for  eg small blocks of flats. Neat idea though! It has one lot of zeolite drying while another is getting hot.

[AJmitts]

Hi, just following this thread with interest and I am new to the BuildHub. 

 

I just thought some of you may like my experience with a hot water heat pump. 

 

We moved into a house with a ESP Ecoscent 300L installed which is nearing 10 years old. We did not have too many issues with it until the last year or so where it has been repeatedly overheating. It reaches around 70 degrees (although set to 55) and cuts out.... This obviously uses lots of electricity on the 'backup' immersion and is quite inconvenient. We had the sensor, anode and immersion replaced last year as advised by the ESP technical support (who seems to be the owner). This cost us £127.20 for parts and £500 labour for two different visits. Now a year on we have had the same issue again... so I called ESP and they advised to replace the sensor again. This, however, did not resolve the issue and our engineer now believes it is a PCB fault. This is going to cost £550 for the part plus labour.

 

Clearly with these types of issues and the cost of potential ongoing repairs we are considering a new installation. As I believe the tank on these systems only last 15 years anyway (as they are not stainless). I was looking into what may be the best replacement option for us and as JonnyW says there are a few others on the market. I have been looking at the Dimplex Edel and the Vaillant aroSTOR in particular as these are both quite reputable brands. I was wondering if anyone has since this thread had any experience with these systems? or are we better off getting a more 'traditional' heat pump installed. 

 

Many thanks 

[HughF]

31 minutes ago, AJmitts said:

Hi, just following this thread with interest and I am new to the BuildHub. 

 

I just thought some of you may like my experience with a hot water heat pump. 

 

We moved into a house with a ESP Ecoscent 300L installed which is nearing 10 years old. We did not have too many issues with it until the last year or so where it has been repeatedly overheating. It reaches around 70 degrees (although set to 55) and cuts out.... This obviously uses lots of electricity on the 'backup' immersion and is quite inconvenient. We had the sensor, anode and immersion replaced last year as advised by the ESP technical support (who seems to be the owner). This cost us £127.20 for parts and £500 labour for two different visits. Now a year on we have had the same issue again... so I called ESP and they advised to replace the sensor again. This, however, did not resolve the issue and our engineer now believes it is a PCB fault. This is going to cost £550 for the part plus labour.

 

Clearly with these types of issues and the cost of potential ongoing repairs we are considering a new installation. As I believe the tank on these systems only last 15 years anyway (as they are not stainless). I was looking into what may be the best replacement option for us and as JonnyW says there are a few others on the market. I have been looking at the Dimplex Edel and the Vaillant aroSTOR in particular as these are both quite reputable brands. I was wondering if anyone has since this thread had any experience with these systems? or are we better off getting a more 'traditional' heat pump installed. 

 

Many thanks 

if you only need it for DHW and you don't need a heat pump for your central heating, just buy another heat pump water heater?

 

Google will find you one...

[AJmitts]

10 minutes ago, HughF said:

if you only need it for DHW and you don't need a heat pump for your central heating, just buy another heat pump water heater?

 

Google will find you one...

Thanks Hugh, I was just looking for some feedback. If anyone has had the above mentioned installed as to which may be the best option (Edel, aroSTOR or any others). Clearly Google may well find me one but it may not be a very good one..... From what I can see there aren't many reviews available online for these types of systems. I think you are right about keeping it simple and reinstalling. 

[HughF]

3 hours ago, AJmitts said:

Thanks Hugh, I was just looking for some feedback. If anyone has had the above mentioned installed as to which may be the best option (Edel, aroSTOR or any others). Clearly Google may well find me one but it may not be a very good one..... From what I can see there aren't many reviews available online for these types of systems. I think you are right about keeping it simple and reinstalling. 

They are far, far, far more popular in the US, where a domestic water heater has, for years, been a simple UVC with and immersion in it.

 

Perhaps look to the US for some reviews? But be aware that they will all be re-branded asian units. No-one makes this stuff anywhere else.

 

 

[Thedreamer]

6 hours ago, AJmitts said:

Thanks Hugh, I was just looking for some feedback. If anyone has had the above mentioned installed as to which may be the best option (Edel, aroSTOR or any others). Clearly Google may well find me one but it may not be a very good one..... From what I can see there aren't many reviews available online for these types of systems. I think you are right about keeping it simple and reinstalling. 

 

I'm two years in with a Joule and working fine so far.

[ReedRichards]

I'm curious; if you use a heat pump to heat your water but not your house, how are you heating your house and why is that better than using a heat pump to heat both your water and your house?

[Thedreamer]

2 hours ago, ReedRichards said:

I'm curious; if you use a heat pump to heat your water but not your house, how are you heating your house and why is that better than using a heat pump to heat both your water and your house?

 

Our house is a recent self build that requires little heat. From about October to around now I heat the house from a central wood burning stove for a few hours in the evening. I have pretty much an endless amount of wood. 

 

The rest of the year its just solar gains.

 

This keeps the energy bills to around £60 a month.

[AJmitts]

9 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

 

I'm two years in with a Joule and working fine so far.

That's great, I am glad that it has worked well. I can't seem to see the Joule available many places. Did you order this direct from them and is this the Joule Aero? thanks 

[AJmitts]

8 hours ago, ReedRichards said:

I'm curious; if you use a heat pump to heat your water but not your house, how are you heating your house and why is that better than using a heat pump to heat both your water and your house?

 

Similarly to the Dreamer we rely on a wood burner for our heating which works well for us. We have Dimplex panel heaters installed but don't often need to use these (only on very cold days) as we are quite well insulated. 

 

Therefore, we have no wet system installed to supply our heating and to install all the service runs for pipework, radiators etc. is just not viable. We live in an old cottage as well which makes service runs quite challenging anyway. 

 

We would like to install a PV system at some point which would be advantageous but shame there are still no further grants/incentives for this... 

[Thedreamer]

On 11/05/2021 at 23:21, JonnyW said:

Thanks for the replies!

 

@Thedreamer - great to hear a good review about that model. The Joule one does seem to be very good quality. I will look into that one further. What max temp do you let the heat pump achieve?

 

50c

 

It's stainless steel and put together either in the UK or Ireland. 

[Thedreamer]

12 hours ago, AJmitts said:

That's great, I am glad that it has worked well. I can't seem to see the Joule available many places. Did you order this direct from them and is this the Joule Aero? thanks 

 

Yes I have the Aero 260 litre, but a new model now exists. It's seems to be suggested for flats.

 

https://jouleuk.co.uk/victorum-air-exhaust-systems/

 

My plumber ordered, so not sure where it came from.