Hydrogen shouldn't be used for heating...

[Temp]

Says this article...

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/end-of-the-road-gas-boilers-researchers-give-thumbs-down-to-hydrogen-heating-989230

 

"Hydrogen power should reserved for powering aircraft and large factories, say experts, dashing hopes gas industry could pivot to piping hydrogen into homes..."

 

Continues..

[SteamyTea]

I really do not understand why people are bothering with hydrogen as a main stream domestic/light industry/commercial fuel all the studies point to it being inefficient and costly.

[Conor]

9 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

I really do not understand why people are bothering with hydrogen as a main stream domestic/light industry/commercial fuel all the studies point to it being inefficient and costly.

The oil and gas industry is pushing it. No other reason. It's a lame duck, but they're desperate.

[tonyshouse]

In the medium and long term hydrogen will become a very important part of the fuel mix. It will not and should not be put in pipelines. 
 

it can be used in fuel cells to power bike, motorbike, car, van lorry, bus, train aeroplane; shed, house, school, village, town, city.  And will be. 
 

when we can convert sunlight straight to hydrogen we will have our energy problems cracked 
 

 

[SteamyTea]

24 minutes ago, tonyshouse said:

when we can convert sunlight straight to hydrogen we will have our energy problems cracked 

We can currently do that, called Green Hydrogen (as opposed to grey and blue).

Just that it is very inefficient to do so.

It is akin  to going to the gas station and filling up, then pouring half that fuel down the nearest drain.

And why would we want to invest in a third more generation when we don't have to.

 

The problem with hydrogen is that it is not naturally found on Earth, it is found, in very large quantities, as an oxide.  An oxide that is hard to split.  This can be done without 'adding' in outside electricity, it is what plants do, but the land area needed is huge.

 

Below is the thermochemical cycles that amount to the same thing.  Just look at the efficiencies and the temperatures involved.  And that is before post processing and storage again, both energy inefficient processes.

Thermochemical cycle	LHV Efficiency	Temperature (°C/F)
Cerium(IV) oxide-cerium(III) oxide cycle (CeO2/Ce2O3)	? %	2,000 °C (3,630 °F)
Hybrid sulfur cycle (HyS)	43%	900 °C (1,650 °F)
Sulfur iodine cycle (S-I cycle)	38%	900 °C (1,650 °F)
Cadmium sulfate cycle	46%	1,000 °C (1,830 °F)
Barium sulfate cycle	39%	1,000 °C (1,830 °F)
Manganese sulfate cycle	35%	1,100 °C (2,010 °F)
Zinc zinc-oxide cycle (Zn/ZnO)	44%	1,900 °C (3,450 °F)
Hybrid cadmium cycle	42%	1,600 °C (2,910 °F)
Cadmium carbonate cycle	43%	1,600 °C (2,910 °F)
Iron oxide cycle ({\displaystyle {\ce {Fe3O4/FeO}}})	42%	2,200 °C (3,990 °F)
Sodium manganese cycle	49%	1,560 °C (2,840 °F)
Nickel manganese ferrite cycle	43%	1,800 °C (3,270 °F)
Zinc manganese ferrite cycle	43%	1,800 °C (3,270 °F)
Copper-chlorine cycle (Cu-Cl)	41%	550 °C (1,022 °F)

[pdf27]

1 hour ago, Conor said:

The oil and gas industry is pushing it. No other reason. It's a lame duck, but they're desperate.

It's very simple:

• Stage 1 is to get everybody thinking that hydrogen is the solution - and to get them to commit to making it a fundamental part of the energy system. After all, it's new technology (so must be better) without being so unfamiliar as to be scary - so that has to be a good thing, right?
• Stage 2 is to blur the line between "blue" and "green" hydrogen - because both are the same in the pipes, aren't they?
• Stage 3 is to "discover" that "green" hydrogen is really, really expensive, and spend lots of time talking about fuel poverty.
• Stage 4 is to profit from the fact that your otherwise worthless natural gas reserves are now critical to the new "hydrogen economy".

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, pdf27 said:

It's very simple:

• Stage 1 is to get everybody thinking that hydrogen is the solution - and to get them to commit to making it a fundamental part of the energy system. After all, it's new technology (so must be better) without being so unfamiliar as to be scary - so that has to be a good thing, right?
• Stage 2 is to blur the line between "blue" and "green" hydrogen - because both are the same in the pipes, aren't they?
• Stage 3 is to "discover" that "green" hydrogen is really, really expensive, and spend lots of time talking about fuel poverty.
• Stage 4 is to profit from the fact that your otherwise worthless natural gas reserves are now critical to the new "hydrogen economy".

Stage 0

Cancel science lessons in schools, don't want facts getting in the way of a good story.

Edited May 8, 2021 by SteamyTea

[SteamyTea]

This is why people need to study science and stop thinking they can rationalise things with words.

 

Hydrogen Challenger

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

 

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History
Germany
Name:	Hydrogen Challenger
Launched:	1967
Identification:	IMO number: 6724153
General characteristics
Length:	66 m (216 ft 6 in)

Hydrogen Challenger was a 66-metre (216 ft 6 in) refitted coastal tanker (previously Bernd) for mobile hydrogen production. It was fitted with a vertical axis wind turbine to generate electricity for the electrolysis of water to fill the hydrogen storage tanks. The total storage and transportation capacity was 1194 cubic metres (42200 cu ft). It was stationed in the German Bight near Heligoland (where the most wind is), and was to dock in Bremerhaven, where the hydrogen produced would be delivered to the market.

History[edit]

The ship was lengthened from 56 to 66 metres (183 ft 9 in to 216 ft 6 in) in 1969. The added section can be seen in front of the bridge, by clicking the photograph. The hydrogen conversion scheme was completed in 2004. However, the project appears to have been a subsidy fraud:

"The ship never made trips in its planned function. The converter that was to produce the hydrogen was delivered by the manufacturer in good faith, but later taken back because the bill was not paid. Likewise, the much too small wind turbine ran basically empty, because the electricity was not used. Behind the project was a dubious company whose trail later fizzled out. The matter was covered up, and nobody talks about it today. The tanker almost sank in the harbour and was later scrapped."^[1]

Its website has disappeared.

Edited May 8, 2021 by SteamyTea

[joe90]

Just read this about hydrogen being used for house heating.....

 

Burning hydrogen in pure oxygen just produces H₂O. However, hydrogen would normally be burnt in air and some of the ferociously active oxygen atoms combine with nitrogen in the air to form NO_x. There are no carbon atoms for the oxygen atoms to combine with, so a higher proportion combines with nitrogen from the air to form NO_x. For this reason burning hydrogen in air produces up to six times as many NO_x emissions as burning methane in air.