Reassurance and ideas please!

[Jilly]

I hope this isn't an incoherent rant.

 

My builder has gone AWOL for months, it's partly my fault, partly his, Covid, isolation and I'm too inexperienced to know exactly why and need to get back on track now the weather is warmer. 

 

The stable conversion superstructure is complete but there are a few things (insulation in the vaulted ceiling, the roof ventilation debacle, the utilities connections) which are about 80% complete and I stupidly paid for. I have stubbornly waited for him to come back and I'm really not sure if its going to happen (although they have left stuff here like an abandoned broken down dumper truck).

 

His (business) partner got involved (the one who was actually recommended to me: it turns out they work quite independently cos they don't get on) and wants to come back and do the hayshed extension (started on a Building Notice, just the piles in) and says he will rectify the issues.

 

The question/problem is when! He (rightly) says he wants all details decided before coming back. That's where I am flailing and no progress is being made. His QS has given a reasonable quote, but indicated for example 80mm floor insulation. I know that's no good, but it means my extension is going to be a compromise and I want a higher spec, but he needs detailed instructions. My architect's technician doesn't want to get involved on a BN. 

 

The other issue is the hayshed is small and I want to extend it later, rules of conversion are that all must be complete and a household, before I can apply. Which is mad, as Joe alluded to in an earlier post. Builder 2 suggested putting a beam now in for easy demolition later, which is a reasonable idea. 

 

 

I've started making enquiries about subbies on the main stable as I need to get some control back. 

 

I think I just need jollying along..

 

 

[ProDave]

Since you have paid up front for all the work but not had all the work done, I would now be writing a "letter before action" to the first builder stating you want him back on site to complete the work that you have been paid for, or you will be taking the matter to court.

[jack]

Be careful about getting the other guy involved. Who (or what entity, if a company), exactly, did you engage to do the work initially? Who was the recipient of the funds (ideally evidenced by an invoice)?  If it was a company or the first guy, I'd want it in writing that the funds already paid will cover this other guy coming in to finish up.

[Adsibob]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

Since you have paid up front for all the work but not had all the work done, I would now be writing a "letter before action" to the first builder stating you want him back on site to complete the work that you have been paid for, or you will be taking the matter to court.

Agree 100% with this. Have a look at this which, assuming the property is in England and Wales, sets out the requirements for such a letter (section 7 in particular): https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/protocol/prot_ced

 

[SimonD]

Have you chased up the builder you've already paid? It sounds like things just went a bit wishy washy and he drifted off to something else. I'd try to get him re-engaged to finish off the work before making it formal with a letter before action. With taking things the legal route too quickly and too soon, you'll harm your position if and when you need to take things forwards legally and you'll likely get the back up of the builder. You also loose more control of the situation.

 

You have to give him the opportunity to come back and fix/complete what was agreed. I'd make a list of what was agreed, what was done and what is remaining so you can get both yours and the builder's minds clear on what is outstanding. Then write down exactly what you want done by him and when. Then get in touch with him with some clear instructions and ask him to provide a reasonable timescale. This is a step you'll need to demonstrate you've done if you try with a letter before action.

 

If the other builder is part of the same company that you originally contracted, you're fully in your rights to ask him to complete the work as you'll have paid the company not an individual/sole trader - assuming that's what you did?

 

As others have suggested, I wouldn't get the other builder involved to do any other work than what is outstanding right now as it just muddies the waters and if they don't get on, it may add friction the situation. You also want to avoid paying out any more money to anyone else until you know more about getting things on track, or if you've really got a serious problem with the builder who's gone AWOL.

[Jilly]

Thank you all. I really don't want to be confrontational, so I'll try the softly approach again. It isn't a lot of money in the greater scheme of things (renting for longer will cost me far more, its just the uncertainly is getting to me). 

 

 

[Adsibob]

35 minutes ago, SimonD said:

With taking things the legal route too quickly and too soon, you'll harm your position if and when you need to take things forwards legally and you'll likely get the back up of the builder. You also loose more control of the situation.

A well written pre-action letter which complied with the protocol linked to above is intended to protect the writer’s position legally, whilst still trying to remedy the situation WITHOUT recourse to the courts. It’s all about toning the letter appropriately. You need to be firm, but fair. Stick to the facts and avoid emotive language. Explain what you think has gone wrong, give as much detail of the factual chronology, supported by documentary evidence and photos, as possible and explain what you want the reader to reasonably do to correct the position and by when. Just make sure you comply with the protocol, otherwise you won’t get the protections it affords. If you don’t comply with the protocol, and subsequently the matter ends up in court and it’s for a claim that is over the small claims threshold (which I think is £20k) but can’t remember, then legal costs can ramp up and failure to comply with the protocol can result in the court not awarding you a fair share of your legal costs, or worse still, paying the opponents’ legal costs.

 

Of course, that doesn’t prevent you from writing an email that more or less complies with the protocol, and then if that didn’t resolve matters, writing a further one that does.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Adsibob

[SimonD]

32 minutes ago, Adsibob said:

A well written pre-action letter which complied with the protocol linked to above is intended to protect the writer’s position legally, whilst still trying to remedy the situation WITHOUT recourse to the courts. It’s all about toning the letter appropriately. You need to be firm, but fair. Stick to the facts and avoid emotive language. Explain what you think has gone wrong, give as much detail of the factual chronology, supported by documentary evidence and photos, as possible and explain what you want the reader to reasonably do to correct the position and by when. Just make sure you comply with the protocol, otherwise you won’t get the protections it affords. If you don’t comply with the protocol, and subsequently the matter ends up in court and it’s for a claim that is over the small claims threshold (which I think is £20k) but can’t remember, then legal costs can ramp up and failure to comply with the protocol can result in the court not awarding you a fair share of your legal costs, or worse still, paying the opponents’ legal costs.

 

And before you get to this point of pre-action protocol you still need to demonstrate that you have given the person you're claiming against the chance to rectify the problem/satisfy the contract. If you walk into court and say to the judge something like, I hadn't heard from the builder for a while so I sent a letter of claim and commenced legal action, without having tried to take every effort to resolve the problem, you're not going to get very far with your claim. The judge might very well sit there as say, 'oh so you just started with a threat to take legal action?'

 

My view, which is also based on experience in the courts, is that you need to take every opportunity you can to avoid going down that route. Sometimes this may be painfully slow and frustrating. However, you need to show that you've no other option available to you for recourse other than legal proceedings. Hence why, right now, I suggested it was more sensible to try to re-engage with the builder without any mention of legal action. It's simply premature.

 

I think @Jilly 's  approach not to be confrontational is the best bet right now, although that doesn't mean she can't be firm and assertive ?

Edited March 25, 2021 by SimonD

[Adsibob]

@SimonD have you read the protocol? 

[SimonD]

13 hours ago, Adsibob said:

@SimonD have you read the protocol? 

 

Yes I have read the protocol and I'm familiar with its use. There is currently no dispute in the OP. And as I've said you first have to ensure you've given the builder every opportunity to satisfy the contract within a reasonable amount of time.

[Adsibob]

11 hours ago, SimonD said:

you first have to ensure you've given the builder every opportunity to satisfy the contract within a reasonable amount of time.

This is exactly the aim of the protocol.

[SimonD]

13 hours ago, Adsibob said:

This is exactly the aim of the protocol.

Pre-action protocol you linked to apply when you are planning to take someone to court. Therefore the pre-action protocol begins with the Section 7 requirement that the claimant sets out its claim including specified information. In litigation, this would reasonably happen after you have exhausted all other avenues of resolution, not before you've even tried to talk to the other party to sort it out. Even after you've already tried all other avenues, you are asked to meet and try to negotiate a settlement through mediation or something else according to the protocol before the claim proceeds to court.

 

Here is a helpful link to writing a letter of claim: Contents of letter of claim. It details the basis of the claim. This is not where you start with dispute resolution, it's towards the end. Here is a brief outline by Which? of dealing with builder disputes to illustrate that the formal legal stuff comes as a last resort (see section 6 specifically for when the pre-action protocol applies): https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-to-complain-if-you-re-unhappy-with-building-work-aWG3g5O4RZCh

[Jilly]

I've had a bit of action since I mentioned selling the broken down dumper ?

[SimonD]

18 hours ago, Jilly said:

I've had a bit of action since I mentioned selling the broken down dumper ?

At least that's something ?

[Jilly]

The two builders mentioned are actually partners!

 

I threw my toys out of the pram on Monday as they still haven't been back to rectify and we haven't made progress. Builder 2 is livid that I've asked for a refund for the incomplete works, but to be honest I've now no faith at all that they would ever come back to rectify faults (it's been 6 months). I now need to get a really good handle on the detail and buy some more tools! Just bought a good ladder which is a start.

 

I'm not going to pursue any money as I don't want the agro, and some of the blame is mine (changing architect, new one forgot/didn't know about bat membrane), I was ill and didn't notice. Luckily it was easy to rectify when I realised.

 

The broken down abandoned dumper is still here, maybe they wanted it to be pinched!

 

 

[SimonD]

Oh my, I feel for you Jilly. What a frustrating situation. So are your plans now to draw a line under this builder chapter and take on the remaining works yourself or are you going to try and find replacement builders?

 

When I was starting my work, I had no less than 4 neighbours come and talk to me and share their experiences with builders. All of them had firms either letting them down, 2 of them disappearing, one leaving incomplete work, delaying completion and claiming they had done to completion. One of the builders actually left one neighbour when they got to the roof structure and when chased just said he wasn't interested in the rest of the work anymore! I know it doesn't help solve your situation but hopefully illustrates that you're not alone in this.

[Jilly]

Thank you and OMG!

 

The superstructure of the main stable has been converted, so I'm just going to try to keep going in small bites with myself, occasionally my partner, subbies and my virtual friends!