catrionag Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 I dread to ask what the cost of this might be. It's a single line that crosses our potential plot diagonally at a height of around 4m, and it'll need to be moved in order to proceed with our build. All I'm looking for is a rough idea of the cost. Contacted OpenReach, who proceeded to phone me at 8am on a Sunday morning (which obviously I missed, being a millenial who never has my ringer on). I emailed back straight away and have heard nothing. I did try calling them back but apparently due to "the current situation" they've shut down all their call centres. Has anyone does something similar? How much did it cost? I only need a rough idea so that I don't have a heart attack down the line, really. Met the neighbour the last time we visited the plot and he seems like a friendly enough chap - I had thoughts that I could ask him to contact them directly about getting it moved (and then we would pay). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 I would be tempted to tell them you have machinery on site and it WILL be damaged unless they move it, might put a bomb under their ass! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Should it cost you anything? Did the previous owner of your plot enter into a wayleave agreement for the current installation? How can this wayleave be terminated? One problem you have is that 4m in height is a permissible droop for a line running across another property so I think you will need to demonstrate it interferes with future building activity such as scaffolding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catrionag Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 50 minutes ago, joe90 said: I would be tempted to tell them you have machinery on site and it WILL be damaged unless they move it, might put a bomb under their ass! That's an excellent idea, actually! I did see some previous posts in my search here where people "accidentally" damaged the line to get them to sort it quickly, but I feel that might not be taken so well by the nice neighbours... 20 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: Should it cost you anything? Did the previous owner of your plot enter into a wayleave agreement for the current installation? How can this wayleave be terminated? One problem you have is that 4m in height is a permissible droop for a line running across another property so I think you will need to demonstrate it interferes with future building activity such as scaffolding. So, the plot is a garden plot that's been sectioned off from the neighbour's house. That means that when it was installed, presumably they didn't see any issues with it as it was over their own garden. The house was then sold. Would that still require a wayleave, since when the line was installed it was all one property? The kit house company we're using have said it's definitely at a height that will interfere with the movement of their telehandler and the scaffolding. I wonder if it can be temporarily relocated, hmm. That's something to double check with OpenReach if I can ever get back in touch with them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 As far as I can remember “oversailing” does not require a wayleave, just warn openreach that it will be damaged if it’s not moved (yes don’t upset a “good” neighbour, you want him to stay that way). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catrionag Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 @joe90 Good advice, thanks Joe! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 31 minutes ago, catrionag said: The house was then sold. Would that still require a wayleave, since when the line was installed it was all one property? An historical wayleave with OpenReach that you could terminate would have been useful but given the plot history I doubt one exists. You probably have to deal with default oversailing regs as @joe90suggests. The more difficult situation for you would be if you have purchased the plot and failed to notice that your deeds give ongoing rights to the neighbour for existing services routed under or over your land. I wonder if you could swing a deal with OpenReach whereby you dig a conduit for both your future landline and also take his line underground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catrionag Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: An historical wayleave with OpenReach that you could terminate would have been useful but given the plot history I doubt one exists. You probably have to deal with default oversailing regs as @joe90suggests. The more difficult situation for you would be if you have purchased the plot and failed to notice that your deeds give ongoing rights to the neighbour for existing services routed under or over your land. I wonder if you could swing a deal with OpenReach whereby you dig a conduit for both your future landline and also take his line underground. As of yet we still don't own it! This is one of the last niggling costs that we're trying to establish before taking the plunge. Naively I thought it might be one of the easier costs to figure out (ha ha). If OpenReach ever deign to get back in touch with me that's also a great idea - I suppose I'll just need to sit tight and wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, catrionag said: I suppose I'll just need to sit tight and wait. they will take forever, pester them like mad, only way to get them to respond IMO. But as @epsilonGreedy says, negotiate youre line at the same time (if you want one). Edited March 17, 2021 by joe90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, catrionag said: As of yet we still don't own it! This is one of the last niggling costs that we're trying to establish before taking the plunge. Naively I thought it might be one of the easier costs to figure out (ha ha). I assume the total distance of the current route is less than 100m? The max flying span for regular BT cable is 55m so you can probably work out if one extra pole will fix the problem. The cost will increase a lot if a public road closure is required to reroute your neighbour's line. I would investigate going underground, it is the modern way. 33 minutes ago, catrionag said: If OpenReach ever deign to get back in touch with me that's also a great idea - I suppose I'll just need to sit tight and wait. Nooo. Don't leave these things to chance. Advise your solicitor of your concern and tell him you don't want your neighbour to have any residual rights to retain this service route across your land, then it is up to them to spot the risk and propose a solution. I am assuming here that the plot will only be legally split on the day of purchase completion. Edited March 17, 2021 by epsilonGreedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catrionag Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: I am assuming here that the plot will only be legally split on the day of purchase completion. The neighbour is not the owner of the plot. The current owner of the plot is the previous owner of the neighbour's house, if that makes sense? She split the land from the house before selling, sold the house but has not sold the plot (it's been on the market for 2+ years at this point). 4 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: Nooo. Don't leave these things to chance. I only mean that I'm not actually sure how to get in touch with them at the moment, since there is no way to contact them by phone currently and I'm getting no response to emails! I'd estimate the current span is around 30m. They would almost certainly have to close the road for the erection of a new pole - it's narrow, and all of the existing poles are on the other side in the grass verges there. Going underground may be the more practical solution, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 59 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: I would investigate going underground, it is the modern way. I concur and so does Paul Weller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 A site plan sketch / google maps screenshot would help. We demolished and did not re-instate the drop wire to the new house from the pole across the lane, instead we laid duct on our side and, after discussion with OR, laid it at our expense across the lane to the pole. We pulled through our own cable (you can buy OR approved cable, not expensive) and they hooked it up either end when it came to connection time. I presume you could do something similar - if you present OR with laid cable then they should be happy to swap out the overhead line. You also have the option to 'mole' across roads and avoid the cost of closures. Maybe get a local ground worker to price this up and use that as a working figure? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catrionag Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) Cheers @Bitpipe, that's a good shout about getting a groundworker to quote for it - then at least I'll have some sort of idea of the costs. Used my amazing skills in Paint to draw this up. The thick black line is the current overhead phone line. The three yellow dots are the positions of existing poles that I can see on street view. My thoughts were that they could switch to using the other pole - however, that looks like it'd cross the garden of 27b which would presumably require a wayleave... Edited March 17, 2021 by catrionag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, catrionag said: Cheers @Bitpipe, that's a good shout about getting a groundworker to quote for it - then at least I'll have some sort of idea of the costs. Used my amazing skills in Paint to draw this up. The thick black line is the current overhead phone line. The three yellow dots are the positions of existing poles that I can see on street view. My thoughts were that they could switch to using the other pole - however, that looks like it'd cross the garden of 27b which would presumably require a wayleave... This does not look very complicated, OR would run a new wire from the pole outside 16a and use their 'flying wire' exemption to negate a wayleave, but if going to the same side of 29 that the current wire is on, it would not impinge much at all on 27b. I think it's a case of continuing to pester OR to move it to that pole so your works (and you will be planning to use a crane, obviously) does not damage it. https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/obtaining-wayleaves What are flying wires? These are wires which “fly” across one property from telegraph poles on another property. We’re sometimes allowed to install these without needing a wayleave, but only if: we don’t need to enter the property to do it the wires are 3 metres or more they don’t interfere with normal business at the property. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Yes @Bitpipe has it right, get them to swing the span to the other DP (distribution pole) ?, but get on with it ASAP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 This is the damage reporting line - obviously there has been no damage 'yet' but may be a way to get in touch with them. Just explain that you'll be starting works on site 'soon' and you're worried your crane may damage it - I think you need to create a sense of urgency to get them to do anything (even quote) vs just making enquiries. To report Damage to the Openreach network please call the reporting team on 0800 023 2023 (Option 1 + Option 1) the team are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. But I really don't think it will be super expensive and should not get in the way of your plot purchase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catrionag Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, Bitpipe said: But I really don't think it will be super expensive and should not get in the way of your plot purchase. This is really reassuring - thank you so much for taking a look, and also for pointing out the 'flying wire' exemption - it looks that that would fit perfectly! I'll keep pestering them just now, and maybe by the time the timber frame is going up the line might be out of the way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Is that a substation at the bottom of the garden of 27b..?? If so, it’s may be a non starter for an over sailing wire as a telco line cannot pass over power infrastructure in that way. They can’t pull the catenary safely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catrionag Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, PeterW said: Is that a substation at the bottom of the garden of 27b..?? If so, it’s may be a non starter for an over sailing wire as a telco line cannot pass over power infrastructure in that way. They can’t pull the catenary safely. Hmm, that could be an issue - can't see what it is due to hedges. However, on streetview, there does seem to be a wire from that pole outside 16a already going in almost exactly the direction we would need (over the bottom of 27b's garden), so I'd hope something similar would be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 May not be a problem then but it says substation. On a separate note, have you checked there are no large cables running under the plot as the substation is nearby..?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catrionag Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 16 hours ago, PeterW said: On a separate note, have you checked there are no large cables running under the plot as the substation is nearby..?? Haven't checked that, no. If the plot already has full planning, is that something that would have been flagged up at that point? I'm thinking it might be worth giving BC a quick call. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 1 hour ago, catrionag said: Haven't checked that, no. If the plot already has full planning, is that something that would have been flagged up at that point? I'm thinking it might be worth giving BC a quick call. Thanks! BCO won’t know - start with the power distribution company. Location will help to identify which one to talk to. It is perfectly possibly to get planning for houses that cannot be built, either for structural reasons or because of environmental reasons so don’t take it that just because a house has planning that you can actually complete it ..!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catrionag Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, PeterW said: BCO won’t know - start with the power distribution company. Location will help to identify which one to talk to. It is perfectly possibly to get planning for houses that cannot be built, either for structural reasons or because of environmental reasons so don’t take it that just because a house has planning that you can actually complete it ..!! I've realised that I already have a quote for a new connection which includes a local site plan from SP Energy: it shows that there is nothing major under the plot. They gave me a number to call with questions in any case so I can double check with them. Thanks for this - all things I probably would have just taken for granted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 I think adding a new pole and changing the route to use it would be around £2,000. They normally want a £300 fee to do a survey and may not be very responsive until you pay for that, or even if you do pay! I've heard of figures between £1500 and £4,000 for similar work a few years back but the devil is in the detail If you dont mind.. It might me cheaper if you allow a pole in the bottom corner of your plot but don't offer that unless putting another one in the road is expensive or not possible for som reason. Beware the pole location messing with visibility splays if any are a condition of your PP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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