Draftsight

[Onoff]

Quick guide to give a taste of Draftsight. Later version now out but should give the gist. 

 

(Last two pics are the wrong way round I think).

 

Quick Guide To Using DraftSight.pdf

[Jeremy Harris]

Thanks for posting this.  You could almost take away the product name and most AutoCad users of my vintage would immediately recognise the screen and toolbars as being AutoCad.  I'll give it a go later, as it looks like a zero learning curve for those already familiar with the AutoCad interface.

 

I find I rarely need 3D anyway, as I've always stuck with the view that a CAD package is just a replacement for a drawing board, so tend to make drawings as I would on paper, anyway.  Most house drawings are still done the same way, at least for planning and building regs, so a 2D package should meet most self-builders needs.

[SteamyTea]

I am the same re 3D.

I think 3D is really for people that don't understand technical drawings (no criticism intended).

I also think that 3D can create a lot of problems between industries/suppliers.  There are standards and conventions used in drafting, and these are often not the same as what an industry will use.

Take a brick or a bit of timber, they may specify a size, then you get the goods and they are different.  This is a serious problem for those that do not know about tolerances and how to use them.

 

That example of the RSJ fitted wrongly is probably a misunderstanding at the drawing level, then the 'builder' has tried to make the best of a bad job.

Edited February 9, 2017 by SteamyTea

[Onoff]

I learnt 2D first on a board, 1st and 3rd angle projection etc. Then into isometric, 30 & 45deg, vanishing point (train/tunnel ). So I had a good grounding I think.

 

I now think/visualise and sketch in 3D.

 

The only command you need to know for drawing in 3D in AutoCAD is EXTRUDE imho. Crack that and it's a piece of pi$$. Draw your element in 2D and make it a POLYLINE (no gaps in the outline, it's just one entity). Think of an I beam end on. Change the view to isometric. EXTRUDE it to length. Job done.

[IanR]

12 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I think 3D is really for people that don't understand technical drawings (no criticism intended).

 

I find that quite a peculiar statement.

 

In most industries even when a product is modelled in 3D, 2D drawings then have to be created (from the 3D) to cascade the info to down stream users. There are few industries that exist from concept to manufacture in 3D only. (although both automotive and aerospace are trying their hardest to develop the tools to facilitate it)

 

The use of 3D just depends on whether there is a process benefit. In volume production, investing in 3D to resolve as many of the issues without actually having to physically build something is a no-brainer. In construction, especially a one-off self-build, it's questionable how much is worth doing in 3D to find and resolve issues, versus have the builder resolve them on site when they materialise.

[SteamyTea]

10 minutes ago, Onoff said:

The only command you need to know for drawing in 3D in AutoCAD is EXTRUDE imho

And then the second bit is how to rotate and move it into place, which is where I fall down.

And then make one end small than the other.

 

When I did a course in SolidWorks I never seemed to get to grips with the idea of starting with a block of material and then cutting bits away, even though that is how things are made (3D printing aside).

 

2 minutes ago, IanR said:

I find that quite a peculiar statement.

Just my experience.  It seems to me that there is often a disconnect between the designer/drafter, the engineer and the supplier.

 

If I drew a wall 6 metres long, 2 metres high and 0.15m thick with a tolerance of -0 +0.01m, that is what I would expect to be build, not something to the nearest bricks worth.

[IanR]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

If I drew a wall 6 metres long, 2 metres high and 0.15m thick with a tolerance of -0 +0.01m, that is what I would expect to be build, not something to the nearest bricks worth.

 

But why would you use a tolerance that wasn't achievable by the manufacturing process. That would be a rooky mistake made at the 2D level. 3D is modelled at nominal, tolerances are added as embellishments to the 2D drawing.

[SteamyTea]

1 minute ago, IanR said:

That would be a rooky mistake made at the 2D level

That is the point I am making.  Glad we agree on it.

 

There seems to be a lot of people that think because they can make a nice shape in a 3D package it can be translated into reality.

[IanR]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

There seems to be a lot of people that think because they can make a nice shape in a 3D package it can be translated into reality.

 

But wouldn't the same inexperienced person make the same mistake if they drew it in 2D. ie. is it not the level of experience at fault, rather than whether they chose to draw it in 2D or model it in 3D?

[SteamyTea]

Almost certainly.

It is an issue of the disconnect more than the software.

Maybe I was not making my self clear at the beginning.

[Onoff]

CAD is often just a replacement for the back of a "fag packet" / Hot Works Permit / RAMS in my world!

 

My mate once threw an empty packet of JPS out the Transit window coming down the M1 from working on Manchester Airport's control tower. Pity as it had details of all the modified brackets we needed to have made. Needless to say we went back.....

[Onoff]

One of the Draftsight versions a little while ago was unusable on Ubuntu/Zorin!  Don't know if they've fixed it as I tend to use AutoCAD.

 

I'm running Draftsight V1R5.1 x64 on a Win 7 64-bit pc with no issues

 

My AutoCAD 2010 will only run on Win 7 32-bit but NOT 64-bit. You can pay about £100 to get a thing called Longbow to sort it.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Onoff

[Onoff]

I'm going to have to learn how to use Solidworks or Solidedge.

 

I've received some assembly drgs as PDFs that were created in Solid Edge and you can rotate, zoom in and "explore" inside from within Adobe Acrobat. It would be marvellous for say drawing up my complex existing roof structure or plumbing and then asking for comment.

 

My son is using Solidworks for his A Level stuff which my Solid Edge using foreign supplier reckons is "clunky but has become a bit of a standard goto".

 

Which way to go? From the little I've read Solidworks is big on marketing and easier to learn but Solid Edge more innovative.

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I have a Solidworks licence and spent a week on holiday, with a printed copy of the manual, learning how to drive it (it was OK, we were staying at a friends place in the South of France and all my other half wanted to do was laze around by the pool............).

 

After a week I was pretty competent with it, but the concepts were a bit strange, coming from a conventional technical drawing tool like AutoCad to Solidworks.  I think if you've never used CAD, and have no conventional drawing board experience (and back when I was at school in the 60's we still had Technical Drawing as an O level, which I took) then learning Solidworks, or the pretty similar Rhinoceros, is fairly easy.  As always, it's the change from engrained ways of working to something very different that I found challenging. 

 

What did really impress me was CATIA.  I managed a programme where the product was entirely modelled in CATIA and it's incredibly impressive.  What was even more impressive was finding out that the thing could spit out data to allow animations and videos of the final product.  I hate to think what CATIA must cost, but then the programme cost at the time was just under £1.4bn..............

[SteamyTea]

I did a SolidWorks course as part of my BSc.  I can understand that for people with no drafting experience it is easy to learn (and there is a lot in it), but I found it hard to convert.

I actually drew up my 3D model in TurboCad for the assignment, then just saved it as a SolidWorks model.

Edited February 12, 2017 by SteamyTea

[Jeremy Harris]

1 minute ago, SteamyTea said:

I actually drew up my 3D model in TurboCad for the assignment, then just saved it as a SolidWorks model.

 

I had to chuckle at this, as the only time I used Solidworks in anger, I did very much the same.  I drew it up as standard projections in AutoCad and then imported the .dwg file into Solidworks, just to get a pretty 3D model!

[PeterW]

6 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

What did really impress me was CATIA.  I managed a programme where the product was entirely modelled in CATIA and it's incredibly impressive.  What was even more impressive was finding out that the thing could spit out data to allow animations and videos of the final product.  I hate to think what CATIA must cost, but then the programme cost at the time was just under £1.4bn..............

 

When I was rolling out Catia in the early part of 2008 it was €16k per workstation and that didn't include any of the server side stuff which was north of €2m IIRC

 

Our engineers used to have a "globe" that you could pick up from the desk and rotate in 3D, with the model on screen moving in exactly the same way... we also had a large design for maintenance team who ensured that once the units were built we could actually maintain them as they could simulate removing large components on screen saving millions in rework if the parts had to be redone in manufacturing.  

[SteamyTea]

I think I downloaded a copy of CATIA as a torrent once.

[Onoff]

2 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

I did a SolidWorks course as part of my BSc.  I can understand that for people with no drafting experience it is easy to learn (and there is a lot in it), but I found it hard to convert.

I actually drew up my 3D model in TurboCad for the assignment, then just saved it as a SolidWorks model.

 

A bit like when I was a college doing tray & trunking work. We were "forced" to cut all the mitres with a hacksaw then file them. The lecturer would hold them up to the light to see how the gaps looked and if he wasn't happy make you do them again. I thought "Sod this, I wouldn't do this in the real world!". I slunk off to the van with my bits and fired the 115mm grinder up. All done I crept back into class and presented them to him. He then proceeded to hold them up as an example of how things should be done!  Still got them in the garage somewhere.

[Jeremy Harris]

 

7 minutes ago, PeterW said:

 

When I was rolling out Catia in the early part of 2008 it was €16k per workstation and that didn't include any of the server side stuff which was north of €2m IIRC

 

Our engineers used to have a "globe" that you could pick up from the desk and rotate in 3D, with the model on screen moving in exactly the same way... we also had a large design for maintenance team who ensured that once the units were built we could actually maintain them as they could simulate removing large components on screen saving millions in rework if the parts had to be redone in manufacturing.  

 

I have a superb video here of the "product" in action, based purely on the CATIA model.  It's really, really impressive.  I'd post it but it's far too big a file to upload here; I may see if I can just stick it up on my server somewhere with an FTP link.  The product is now flying, and is based near me, with my other half helping to look after the health of the aircrew that fly it.  It was Future Lynx when I was running the programme, but is Lynx Wildcat now it's in service.

 

All the manuals were produced using CATIA too, and the maintenance training tools.  The idea was that maintainer would wear a partial VR headset, with the virtual images overlaid on what they were seeing, together with maintenance instructions, very impressive.

Edited February 12, 2017 by JSHarris

[SteamyTea]

There is a bit here about making Draftsight portable:

http://portableapps.com/node/28290

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

There is a bit here about making Draftsight portable:

http://portableapps.com/node/28290

 

That looks good!  I'm coming around to the idea that with more than one machine, having portable apps like this really makes a great deal of sense.

[SteamyTea]

I like them as they tend to be free.

I think we are slowly coming to the end of paid for software.

[Gone West]

2 hours ago, JSHarris said:

(and back when I was at school in the 60's we still had Technical Drawing as an O level, which I took)

 

Yes I took Technical Drawing O level in the 60's, those were the days, also took Statistics which was a separate subject back then.

[joe90]

1 hour ago, PeterStarck said:

 

Yes I took Technical Drawing O level in the 60's, those were the days, also took Statistics which was a separate subject back then.

Yep, I took technical drawing and geometrical drawing at o level, then did woodwork. Can't be bothered with auto cad ( I am a Luddite) and still have my drawing board, propelling pencils ( but use a scanner to send anything to my builder by email) . I have a workshop full of tools and can't wait to get on with proper woodwork for the house and it's furnishings) . Then there's the car!!!.