Question about chimney breast removal and B.regs

[Urchin]

Hi all. 
 

I just want to check something before I go ahead and pay for building regs to oversee the removal a chimney breast in my lounge.

 

Basically I’ve been told by a builder I asked that gallows brackets will be fine and I don’t need a RSJ. 
I have a gathered stack and it’s just the one breast in my lounge that I want to take out. 

 

I did see it somewhere online that gallows brackets are no longer acceptable but other places have said that for a gathered stack it’s fine and you only need an RSJ if it’s a vertical stack. 

I can only afford the gallows brackets option so don’t really want to waste the £170 building regs fee to get told it’s and RSJ job that I won’t be carrying out anyway. 

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Urchin

[DevilDamo]

Irrespective of the support method, any structural alteration will require BR’s. It’s then up to the BCO to advise if a bracket will be acceptable as opposed to a steel as their requirements vary up and down the country.

[nod]

While gallow Brackets will do the job I’d be amazed if building control didn’t want your builder to use a steel 

From what I’ve seen over the years many chimney breasts have been removed without informing BC

I’ve seen chimneys stripped into the loft and a couple of lengths of 4x4 wedged between the masonry and the ceiling joists 

 

 

[SoldierDog]

https://www.labc.co.uk/news/how-to-get-it-right-removing-chimney-right-way-video-showing-wrong-way

[tonyshouse]

I have seen lots corbelled , no steel, no gallows bracket and no wood, no falling down. 

 

the prof of structural engineering at Cambridge University told me once that if a masonry structure can stand for 5 mins ti will stand forever 

 

BUilding Inspectors like belt and braces as no liability on them and they don’t have to pay for it. 

[Nickfromwales]

You can take risks for yourself, but a 3rd party cannot do that to you, so regs need following. If that comes down, you wouldn’t want to be in the room underneath it when it does.  

[Gus Potter]

3 hours ago, Urchin said:

Hi all. 
 

I just want to check something before I go ahead and pay for building regs to oversee the removal a chimney breast in my lounge.

 

Basically I’ve been told by a builder I asked that gallows brackets will be fine and I don’t need a RSJ. 
I have a gathered stack and it’s just the one breast in my lounge that I want to take out. 

 

I did see it somewhere online that gallows brackets are no longer acceptable but other places have said that for a gathered stack it’s fine and you only need an RSJ if it’s a vertical stack. 

I can only afford the gallows brackets option so don’t really want to waste the £170 building regs fee to get told it’s and RSJ job that I won’t be carrying out anyway. 

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

I would excercise caution here. The chimney breast may be contributing towards stiffening a wall. If you take a chunk out of it will that have a consequence?

 

The fixing of a gallows bracket to the wall is one of the most important things. Ask the builder what brackets they think will be appropriate. Go on the net and look carefully at the manufacture's installation instructions.. the wall/ brick type and exactly where and how the fixings have to be installed so they can carry the weight. Often you'll see that the fixings have to be positioned near the centre of the bricks ect and carefully installed, you are not putting up a shelf for books.. there is a bit to it if you want to be sure all is ok.

 

Urchin.. you may actually find that there is a different way.. cheeper and more cost effective too. Post some photos, diagrams etc and you'll get help here on BH.

 

@tonyshouse "have seen lots corbelled , no steel, no gallows bracket and no wood, no falling down. 

 

the prof of structural engineering at Cambridge University told me once that if a masonry structure can stand for 5 mins ti will stand forever 

 

BUilding Inspectors like belt and braces as no liability on them and they don’t have to pay for it. "

 

There is a saying that a building will only fall down when it has exhausted all other means of support..wind etc . However, we are afflicted with more common shoddy workmanship.  

 

Sometimes for small works you really need to consider the fact that workmanship standards often drop and design for this.

 

 

[Temp]

Is it a detached house or a semi? If a semi have the neighbours already removed the chimney their side? 

 

https://www.labc.co.uk/news/how-to-get-it-right-removing-chimney-right-way-video-showing-wrong-way

 

I am a chartered structural engineer. Structurally this advice is safe as described. BUT the advice relies on the neighbour's remaining in place. I have recently been involved in a project where we discovered by chance that their neighbour had used gallows brackets. It cost thousands of pounds to provide a structure to make it safe to remove the chimney breast on the second side. There must be many projects where it is never discovered that gallows brackets have been used on the adjoining owners chimney. Therefore I consider that in the long-term the advice is not safe and that gallows brackets should NEVER be used on a party wall.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Temp