ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Hi there I have a similar problem to the other “zone not warming up” on here. I purchased a new build house with an ASHP in the summer this year so now is the first time it’s really been asked to heat when temps are consistently below 4 or 5 c for a period of time. Downstairs is fine but I can’t seem to get upstairs above 17/18c (despite stats set to 21) and it then drops gradually throughout the night (with stats still on 21). There is a manifold upstairs and downstairs. I’ve tweaked the flow rates on all the upstairs ones, sometimes turning off all downstairs ones and some upstairs (ie. to try and heat just one or two of the rooms) but no joy. I was under the view that because there was flow rate that there wasn’t an air lock or blockage? Is that right? The house stood complete for about a year before we moved in so could air have got in the system? I thought the builder might have put in too thick carpets however I’m not sure that’s the case as some of hard floors upstairs (bathrooms) aren’t really warm and carpets in areas down stairs are fine. Also, in some of the rooms upstairs with carpets you do feel occasional hot spots (ie nice and warm) but then step three feet to the side and it’s not warm. Also, if you later go back to that hot spot it is no longer warm. Any thoughts welcome. Thanks in advance. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 There is usually a thermometer on the manifolds to show the flow and possibly the return temperatures. Can you post a picture of your upstairs manifold while the UFH is on please? Carpets will slow down the rate of heat into a room. What times of day is the heating on? It could be as simple as needing the heating on for longer? Can upstairs and downstairs be set at different times? What is the level of loft insulation like? it would not be the first time a mass market builder has not fitted enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Hi there. Thanks for response. Manifold is in teenage daughters bedroom so can’t access at the moment! However, pic of downstairs one attached and no temp gauge on. I seem to recall feeling the flow and return pipes and they were similar temp which was a little concerning(??) but would need to double check this point. stats have been set to 21 for days and never got to that temp. Downstairs reached temp and then switches off. insulation is fine I think. Double layer at least 12inches thick in loft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFDIY Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 You only have manual bleed points on the left of that manifold. If the other manifold is the same (and is the highest point in the system?) Then it will accumulate any air. You can try periodically opening the bleed screw to let out any air. Long term it would be an improvement to fit an automatic bleed / vent on the manifold and the highest point in the system if there is anything placed higher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Thanks. I think the upstairs manifold is the highest point. Do I bleed the valve on the flow or return? Or both? I think I’ve tried that before but a thin jet of water came out so I closed it. Do you need to keep it open for longer and collect the water some how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 So no blending valve and no manifold pump? Time was I only ever saw UFH done "properly" with all the kit, but there is an increasing number of "basic" systems popping up on here. When you next have access to the upstairs manifold, try as above bleeding air from the bleed valves, and then check that all the flow meters (the things on the top manifold) are registering flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gav_P Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 hour ago, ChristyJH said: I seem to recall feeling the flow and return pipes and they were similar temp which was a little concerning(??) I think you’re unlikely to feel the difference by hand. 2 hours ago, ChristyJH said: hard floors upstairs (bathrooms) aren’t really warm I don’t think they should feel warm, if they are warm then it’s probably too hot. I can only describe mine as not cold. Which keeps the house at a level 21-22 degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 There is a manifold pump upstairs and down stairs. Pic of downstairs attached. I think the blending goes on over at the ASHP/ tank set up in my garage. I can see that the the flow of water for heating is c50c and separate flow for HW at c.48c. I still waiting for access to the bedroom to try and bleed. before this there was always flow on each loop and I tried increasing and decreasing them (ranging from 0.5 to about 5 l per min) but no joy with heating temperature. question. Can you still have an airlock / aide in the system AND get flow? The hot spots in certain parts of the floor are confusing me. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 48 degrees sounds very warm for UFH. How many heating loops upstairs? It is possible there are 2 runs of pipe for the larger rooms and perhaps one is flowing and one is airlocked so only half the room is being heated which would explain hot and cold spots. Time to get the teenager out of bed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Gav. Thanks. On your points. when I put my hand on flow and return downstairs there is a much more noticeable difference than upstairs. on the floor temp I would say they are definitely cold. I appreciate they won’t necessarily get warm but when compare to exactly the same floor downstairs they do feel colder (hence why not getting above about 18c upstairs ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Single pump can’t really run two manifolds like that - one will always be starved of heat as the closest and shortest loops take the flow. That pump is on full - try rotating all the way anticlockwise to get the pump running on proportional flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Temp is set to 48 but currently running at 44. Attached pic. ive just kicked teenage out of bed so will try and bleed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Peter. I have tried that. All the way down to just under one and difference. The upstairs loops were still getting flow rates even when down stairs pump was less than one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 No difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Upstairs manifold needs a pump of its own. Is this whole house running off a single pump ..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Upstairs manifold pics attached. Separate pump here. Flow rates between 1 and 3 for those that’ll ally are on. Some are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Do you have any form of thermometer, e.g a handheld IR thermometer to get a measure on flow and return temperatures? Are you SURE all the loops showing no flow are really off and not just flowing? If the rooms are all below their target temperature, I would have expected them all to be on. There are a lot of loops there so almost certainly 2 per room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 A few of these at pertinent points around the system can be useful. Loads similar on eBay, Amazon etc: [£10.44]10Pcs 1M Thermometer Electronic Digital Display FY10 Embedded Thermometer Indoor and Outdoor Temperature Measurement Module Board from Electronic Components & Supplies on banggood https://banggood.app.link/1a2g5lGkKcb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 I turned stats off on the ones with no flow but turned on. All at between 1 and 3. There are nine loops and only 1 per room. 4 x bed. 3 x bathroom 1 x dressing room 1 x landing. I don’t have and IR thermometer unfortunately. Flow and return feel similar temps to the touch. ive opened both the bleed valves and a thin jet of water comes out on both. Do I need to leave open for longer and collect water? pic of current flow rates attached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Onoff. Thanks. I think I’ll get some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 8 minutes ago, ChristyJH said: Onoff. Thanks. I think I’ll get some of them. A few on here have used similar from eBay, Amazon etc. You'll get those quicker than on Banggood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 So you have flow to all loops now. Temperature is probably reasonable if it feels warm. All you can do is wait and see, perhaps run the upstairs UFH for longer if possible? If water comes out of the bleed valves you have no air so that is okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Does the downstairs manifold have its own pump ..?? I wonder if the ASHP pump is pushing water through the downstairs manifold and back to the ASHP and bypassing upstairs. Are there any zone valves ..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Ok thanks. I’ll give it some time. I’ll get some of those thermometers to read the temps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristyJH Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 PeterW. See pic. Pump downstairs is after split of hot water from ASHP. Rest goes upstairs. Other large pile is return from both I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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