Waste Drain Fall

[LSB]

It's come to our attention that we can't have our water treatment plant where we originally planning, something that wasn't noticed by anyone doing drawings.

Anyway, it's because where we were going to place it there is no possibility of vehicle access to empty.

So, we are now going to place it down the slope from the opposite end of the barn, but this will have to be on the far side of the driveway, which planning says we cannot move.

What should we consider when placing pipes under where vehicles will go.

Also, the waste will go along the back of the barn which is 25m, what drop should we be looking at.  Our en-suite toilet is right at the end of the building so will the first point of access to the drains.  The utility WC will be right at the other end, then we have about 30m from there to the treatment tank.

 

We will be getting this all drawn up, but just wanted some thoughts from you experienced peeps.

 

[joe90]

I believe (but can’t find a link to) that a concrete slab should be poured over the pipework and the pipe in pea gravel so the weight of a vehicle is taken by the surrounding ground and not the pipe. In my drive I did not bother but only because it was under where cars were parked and it was quite deep. My builder told me he has seen pipework driven over above ground with no damage, it’s quite strong.

[LSB]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

I believe (but can’t find a link to) that a concrete slab should be poured over the pipework and the pipe in pea gravel so the weight of a vehicle is taken by the surrounding ground and not the pipe. In my drive I did not bother but only because it was under where cars were parked and it was quite deep. My builder told me he has seen pipework driven over above ground with no damage, it’s quite strong.

our current pipe goes under the road and our old cesspit is on the opposite side to the house and drains into one of our fields ultimately.

but, as we didn't install it, the house is 170 yrs old, so I don't know when it was put in.  Potentially original I guess.

but, hubby has to rod ours about once per month as it is no longer sloping under the road, but the cost to do anything is completely prohibitive.

we can't use the same anyway for the barn

 

thanks for the above.

 

[PeterW]

19 minutes ago, LSB said:

Anyway, it's because where we were going to place it there is no possibility of vehicle access to empty.

Tankers round me have 30m pipes - don’t need to park close. 
 

A 55m run is a long run - even at 1:80 you’re talking about starting at 450mm invert and ending 1.15m. How deep are you planning the tank ..??

 

stick some plans up and we may be able to give you options. 

 

[ProDave]

On the plus side he did say the tank would be "Down the slope" so it may not be bad after all.

 

Agreed some plans would help.

 

But moving the tank will also affect where it is going to drain to, which might be a much bigger problem.

 

Who has "brought it to your attention"?  Is is building control refusing it's original position?  Try asking one of the tanker companies to come and have a look and make a statement that they have no problem emptying it at it's original location?

[joe90]

Yes, plant must be within 30m of pumping vehicle.

[LSB]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

On the plus side he did say the tank would be "Down the slope" so it may not be bad after all.

 

Agreed some plans would help.

 

But moving the tank will also affect where it is going to drain to, which might be a much bigger problem.

 

Who has "brought it to your attention"?  Is is building control refusing it's original position?  Try asking one of the tanker companies to come and have a look and make a statement that they have no problem emptying it at it's original location?

I haven't submitted BC drawings yet, going to do that once the conditions have been discharged.

I'll do a little diagram,  by the way I'm 'she' not 'he'  ?

 

[Mr Punter]

22 minutes ago, LSB said:

by the way I'm 'she' not 'he' 

 

Where we are , "they" is apparently the correct term to cause least offence.

[LSB]

ok, the first picture is an extremely rough layout to show where the waste need to go to the tank.

the barn is 25m x 16m and then another 30m ish to the tank.

 

 waste path.pdf

 

then the site layout from the road

 

3 - Block and Site Location Plan.PDF

 

the slope from the road to the barn is approx 120m long with a rise of about 4-5m.

we are planning on putting the tank about 30m down the hill so an approx drop of 1m.

 

sorry first printout only shows building.

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by LSB
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[LSB]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

 

Where we are , "they" is apparently the correct term to cause least offence.

didn't cause offence, just amusing the assumption that people this forum are the male of the species.

I'm the planner, estimator, accountant, buyer etc whereas him indoors is the do-er.

 

Jill 

[ProDave]

But where is it going to drain to FROM the tank?  Land soakaway? Watercourse?

 

Are you assuming the tanker must remain on the road so you need to be within 30M of the road?  Or will your track be capable of taking the weight ans size of the tanker?

[PeterW]

By 30m down the bull do you mean down your drive ..?? Or in the blue square ..??

 

 

[LSB]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

But where is it going to drain to FROM the tank?  Land soakaway? Watercourse?

 

Are you assuming the tanker must remain on the road so you need to be within 30M of the road?  Or will your track be capable of taking the weight ans size of the tanker?

tanker can come up the drive, we will have a huge soakaway and then the final soak will be into our field, as happens now, it mustn't go to a watercourse.

the original location was the opposite end of the barn which only have 4WD or tractor vehicle access.

the barn is at the top of the slopes and it goes down all around.

we own all the fields in the site plan and also some others.

our house at the bottom goes to 4 tanks over the road and then into one of our fields.

 

[LSB]

6 minutes ago, PeterW said:

By 30m down the bull do you mean down your drive ..?? Or in the blue square ..??

 

 

within the blue square, planning to place just above the the label saying track.

 

[ProDave]

So if you own all the field outlined in blue, and the tanker can use your track, then just down the slope a bit from the barn anywhere, as long as the tank is within 30M of the track.

 

So you have lots of options, the higher up the slope the better as that gives you more options for the soakaway

 

I see no need for the pipe to pass under your track at all.

[PeterW]

I’d run the pipe work the opposite way, and come straight under the slab out the front and do an IC then the tank another 5-6m down. Easy access for the tanker from the track and no messing about. 

[LSB]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I’d run the pipe work the opposite way, and come straight under the slab out the front and do an IC then the tank another 5-6m down. Easy access for the tanker from the track and no messing about. 

wish I could, but this is a barn conversion and we have to keep the walls, floor and roof ?

this makes our options a lot more limited.

 

[LSB]

8 minutes ago, PeterW said:

I’d run the pipe work the opposite way, and come straight under the slab out the front and do an IC then the tank another 5-6m down. Easy access for the tanker from the track and no messing about. 

this plan doesn't show all the post and rail fencing.  I've just been talking to hubby about that, but we are stuck with agricultural land versus curtilage.

the curtilage can only be the same size as the footprint of the dwelling plus the driveway, so anything to the right of the 'L' is a no go area.

 

Of course, the chances of any of this causing a problem if we went ahead is very low, but I really don't want any risk of being told to move the tank and drains, costs enough the first time.

 

The fence between track and field goes from the left of the L.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by LSB
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[ProDave]

You don't have to have the tank under "curtailage"  there is nothing wrong with having the tank and the soakaway under agricultural land.

[joe90]

8 minutes ago, LSB said:

the curtilage can only be the same size as the footprint of the dwelling plus the driveway,

I would contest that, our planners tried to tell us our residential/curtilage  was minimal but our deeds showed different and I challenged them to come up with their evidence (fir which they had none) and I could provide evidence that the whole area was in fact garden, they backed down. (Unless your planning permission specifically specifies that). I found many challenges on line where councils tried to dictate curtilage. Our old cess pit was in our field outside the garden.

Edited December 29, 2020 by joe90

[PeterW]

Ok so how much of the “square” is the barn and how much is the garden ..? As in, how much outside have you got in front of the barn..?

 

The tank can go on your land, the council cannot stop you putting a drainage field under agricultural land, it happens all the time, is not visible and does not amount to works requring planning permission. 

[LSB]

5 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Ok so how much of the “square” is the barn and how much is the garden ..? As in, how much outside have you got in front of the barn..?

 

The tank can go on your land, the council cannot stop you putting a drainage field under agricultural land, it happens all the time, is not visible and does not amount to works requring planning permission. 

 

 

 

So, the badly coloured yellow is the barn, the black is the garden.  The rest of the red bit is slightly odd as adding that in would make an area of 375m2, so not for conversion.  I guess the LPA can only do regular shapes !

 

The blue is the edge of our land, so one side of the barn is right on the perimeter, we have about 6' and we are not building right to the end as the existing wall on that side is 1m from the edge.  That is the side where all the bathrooms and some of the bedrooms are because it is a steep bank into the next field, which is about 2m higher at that point, so not a lot of light and no view.

The LPA has not told us where to have the garden, that is up to us, only what the maximum size is, but we need to be aware in the future of what land we will keep and what we will sell.  Anything outside of the curtilage will stay as ag land so should not be used as garden.

The view is from the L side of the barn.

[ProDave]

There is still nothing stopping you having the tank under agricultural land, and if that ever gets sold separately it would be sold with a wayleave to allow access to maintain, repair or replace the tank.

[PeterW]

I’d put the rank where the green circle is, leach field under the field with an easement written up for replacement in the future, or do a linear field. 

[LSB]

thanks for all your help, lots to think about.