Selecting an unknown bricklayer

[dangti6]

I need to appoint a bricklayer on a labour only basis to build my garage up from the ground to wall plate in single skin 100mm block with 3 courses of facing brick beneath DPC (will be rendered above).

 

It’s relatively standard stuff but there are a few assumptions beyond the simple meterage to give me a ball park of what I should expect to see what’s on the low side and what could be classed as excessive.

 

The rear wall is 5m in length, 2.8m high from footing to wallplate. It requires a layer of block underground and 3 courses of facing brick to damp. From there it’s block again up to wall plate with no openings. That’s 14sqm.

 

 

The side wall is 5.5m in length but is a gable. Volume of the lower half is 15.4sqm.

Volume of triangular section is approx 1.7m x 5.5m = 9.35m/2 rounded up to 5sqm plus the 15.4sqm below to be say 21sqm. No openings whatsoever in this wall either.
 

Front wall is a bit more complicated as it’s a 1m return one side of block of flat to allow for wall plate as it’s set back.
1m x 2.8m doubled for volume of block on flat is 6sqm rounded up.

 

The other side of the front wall is 1.9m x 2.8m, doubled for block on back is 12sqm rounded up. Due to existing footings in this area there is a bit of added time for a lintel over where there is no footing and allowances for a small window opening.

 

 

In addition there’s obviously going to be a couple of piers along the back and side wall approx 12 blocks in height, so say a few sqm to allow for that.

 

Total volume by my fag packet estimations is 56sqm. Appreciate as part of this there are about 200 facing bricks in the 3 courses up to damp which would take a bit longer and the faff with the lintel and cuts to the gable but is a starter for 10.
 

 

The guy who I called in to do my foundations teamed up with a bricklayer to assist him doing the footings and they went away after completion to price up building the walls and the price has come back a lot more than I was anticipating from looking at pricing online as a guide. I suspect this is partially down to going through the groundwork company as the labourer element with the bricklayer also requiring an equal share opposed to Bricklayer plus cheaper labourer. They are neat enough and very busy, and good luck to them for pricing for quality rather than a race to the bottom. I would sway further towards them if the lead time was more favourable. They have quoted £720 to damp and £2880 from damp to plate. So £3600 for labour/mixer use alone, as I am supplying all materials. 
 

When you divide that by the 56 metres that’s £64 a square metre taking in to account the overall ‘complexities’. Do others agree this sounds excessive? 

I appreciate I’m going to end up answering my own questions here if people agree with my reservations, but opinions and experiences welcome to help me to such conclusions.

 

I found a local bricklayer on Facebook who came out quickly with his number 2 and gave me a price within 24h. The price received is £1320 for the labour up to wall plate. I know nothing about them other than the 9 month old FB page with several photos and mention of 30 years experience working for other companies before starting alone as a gang of 2. Slight concern that they have a job to finish now and could be with me within a week or two. 
 

Their price divides out to £23 per sqm as a comparison. 
 

Speaking to a neighbour with a building firm who I approached yesterday, who’s unfortunately busy for 6 months - he was unable to recommend any brickies as those he knows are booked up for the foreseeable. Surely a decent bricky with 30 years in the game would have plenty of contacts to approach and be in work... 
 

I am getting someone else over tomorrow to see where they fit in terms of price and timescale to see if the gap closes at all.

 

I guess what I’m wondering is, would you appoint someone you have not had referred to you that you have no knowledge of who appears to be reasonably priced and quickly available? 
 

Initial thoughts are to be upfront with these guys and see if after day 1 they have started to deliver what appears to be a good product and be prepared to boot them off the job if they don’t appear to be of a decent standard. Have you given people the benefit of the doubt, and has it bit you on the arse? Equally, I’m sure - people have gone with what appears to be reputable yet turned out to be an amateur effort but perhaps you should trust your gut. 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by dangti6

[PeterW]

56sqm is about 3200 bricks plus your extras. Local to me, around £2100 all in or about £38/sqm including all your fiddly bits. 

[bassanclan]

Why not ask them where they are working for the next two weeks and have a look at their work? 

[Russell griffiths]

I hate all this talk of  so much a metre, your job is small and fiddly, if you put 10,000m in front of a co it might get their interest, 10 days work doesn’t really get you any discount. 

 

I would look at peters prices and add 30% as he seams to live in the cheapest part of England I’ve ever come across. 

 

How are you tying into the house, starter profiles being screwed on, who fits this?

how much a m you paying for that ?

 

lots of other stuff to take into account, you cannot just get a book out and say it’s so many m, what is the going rate for cutting up a gable, 

how are you getting the correct shape for the gable?

do you have trusses there to work from, who is going to lift the truss up and fit in place so they can cut to it ?

What about piers, your not building a single skin block wall 5m long without piers, how much did you allow for this???

thats probably a £15-18000 garage, so I don’t think it’s that bad really. 

[daiking]

4 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

 

I would look at peters prices and add 30% as he seams to live in the cheapest part of England I’ve ever come across. 

 

 

?

[dangti6]

9 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

I hate all this talk of  so much a metre, your job is small and fiddly, if you put 10,000m in front of a co it might get their interest, 10 days work doesn’t really get you any discount. 

 

I would look at peters prices and add 30% as he seams to live in the cheapest part of England I’ve ever come across. 

 

How are you tying into the house, starter profiles being screwed on, who fits this?

how much a m you paying for that ?

 

lots of other stuff to take into account, you cannot just get a book out and say it’s so many m, what is the going rate for cutting up a gable, 

how are you getting the correct shape for the gable?

do you have trusses there to work from, who is going to lift the truss up and fit in place so they can cut to it ?

What about piers, your not building a single skin block wall 5m long without piers, how much did you allow for this???

thats probably a £15-18000 garage, so I don’t think it’s that bad really. 

 

It was purely a comparative measure to see what sort of ball park I should be expecting to pay, potentially assuming tradesmen would work out the volume to know how many days it would take etc.

 

Yeah tying in with wall starter kits - made this clear when talking both parties through the expectations that they would be fitting them and again supplied by me as a material. 

 

The most expensive quote was broken down to £720 up to damp which is where the lintel faff and 3 courses of facing bricks comes in. It was then £2880 for block above. Say 50sqm of block, that would be £5.76 for each block laid as an alternative measure to compare against others that have had similar work done. 

 

Gable shape would be cut from a truss braced in place, with them coming back to complete the gable in another sitting when trusses arrive. (dearer people insist on me sourcing scaffolding, others didn't mention it so perhaps they made an assumption or maybe they will do it off tressles, TBC if I decide to take a punt on cheap labour) 

 

In my 56sqm guesstimate I allowed a few sqm for piers on the basis there would probably be one on the side and back wall.

[Russell griffiths]

I don’t think anybody would price this by the m

 

i would look at it in days, I would look and think 

day up to damp, mess about drilling, couple of days until we need a hop up, mess about with trestles 

could I do it in a week?NO

so what about 7 days ?Maybe , so shall I put 10 on it to be on the safe side. 

 

Yep, that’s about how much thought your average bricky would put in, very little measuring. 

Just a stab at an estimate based on previous jobs and estimated pain in the arse factor.  

[PeterW]

4 hours ago, dangti6 said:

Say 50sqm of block, that would be £5.76 for each block laid as an alternative measure to compare against others that have had similar work done

 
Blockwork ..?? Thought this was all brick when I priced (guessed) it... 

 

530 blocks laid plus 200 bricks below, faff with the lintels and starters (£20 each) and all the playing with block on flat, I would say that’s 2 days to set out and sort the below DPC and then 5-6 days to get it all up and tidy. £1850... and the @Russell griffiths factor added takes it back to broadly where I was before ..! ?

[dangti6]

Ha, well either way sounds like the £3600 is on the high side!