Council not supported phased application for cil

[Moonshine]

I have planning granted for two houses, and have resubmitted as a phased application for the two houses, so that building one house doesn't trigger the cil on the other.

The council have come back saying they won't support a phased development application. The case officer has said verbally because they may not get any cil.

 

Is there any valid reason why a council would not allow a phased application?

[newhome]

Are you wanting to apply for the exemption and want 2 bites of that cherry? Or you just want to pay each CIL in separate chunks. 
 

[Oz07]

I had something like that years ago but the other way. App granted before s106 introduced and I wanted to change to separate apps. Was a nightmare the council wouldn't swallow it without whacking s106 on the new apps even though was sake scheme. Kept old planning in the end. I wouldn't have thought they can refuse pp on the grounds they will lose out on cil. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Oz07

[Faz]

They wouldn't refuse permission but will condition it so that CIL is payable.  If the sum is big enough they allow you to pay it in 3 or so installments depending on the Council.  What it won't do though is allow you to complete the house and sell it before the payments are due.

 

Not a fan of CIL as it is generally a slush fund for the Council to use on pet projects that rarely benefit the areas where the money has been raised. At the end of the day it is a land tax and should be treated as a straight deduction on the price paid for the land if the asking price has not taken this into account.

[Moonshine]

31 minutes ago, newhome said:

Are you wanting to apply for the exemption and want 2 bites of that cherry? Or you just want to pay each CIL in separate chunks. 
 

 

Nope, i want CIL exception on the house I am going to build and live in.

I don't want to and very unlikely to build the second house myself.

But I don't want to pay the CIL on the house I am not building when i start the house for me. No one else is building now, and the cil is a £20k hole in my budget.

If someone comes along in future to build it and they aren't cil excempt then they will have to pay cil on it then.

 

 

[Moonshine]

1 hour ago, newhome said:

Are you wanting to apply for the exemption and want 2 bites of that cherry? Or you just want to pay each CIL in separate chunks. 
 

 

Nope, i want CIL exception on the house I am going to build and live in.

I don't want to and very unlikely to build the second house myself.

But I don't want to pay the CIL on the house I am not building when i start the house for me. No one else is building now, and the cil is a £20k hole in my budget.

If someone comes along in future to build it and they aren't cil excempt then they will have to pay cil on it then.

 

This is what I want to do (but Cornwall aren't my LPA)

 

https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/environment-and-planning/planning/planning-policy/adopted-plans/community-infrastructure-levy-cil/phased-development-and-community-infrastructure-levy-cil/

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Moonshine

[Faz]

I would suggest you do 2 Form 2s - 1 for each Plot. Then a Form 7a for the Self Build only and a Form 6 for the Self Build when you start - can't see that that would trigger the liability. Even better if you could do each Form 2 in different names - a company or someone else.

[Faz]

I did exactly the above on our current site - we were not concerned about defraying / avoiding the CIL though as we kicked all 3 off at the same time - mine got a £32,000 CIL exemption and the others were payable by a different party (my company).

Edited November 19, 2020 by Faz

[newhome]

Sell the second plot to a self builder and split the title before you start? 

[Temp]

16 hours ago, Faz said:

I would suggest you do 2 Form 2s - 1 for each Plot. Then a Form 7a for the Self Build only and a Form 6 for the Self Build when you start - can't see that that would trigger the liability. Even better if you could do each Form 2 in different names - a company or someone else.

 

I think that would be risky. From what I can see CIL phasing is only allowed if the PP specifically mentions a phased development...

 

https://www.hewitsons.com/latest/news/community-infrastructure-levy-cil-is-your-development-phased-or-will-full-liability-arise-on-first-commencement

 

"If it is intended at any time that a development will be phased then developers and landowners should ensure that such phasing is expressly required within the planning permission and its conditions and s106 obligations."

[Moonshine]

1 minute ago, Temp said:

From what I can see CIL phasing is only allowed if the PP specifically mentions a phased development.

 

That is my take of it too, and why i have resubmitted it as a phased development, specifically mentioning this in the DA statement and including a clear phasing plan.

 

The problem seems to be that the council won't support / allow it to be submitted as a phased development, and i want to understand if / why they make that call, especially as they are theoretically suppose to support development.

[Temp]

The guidance on the CIL here..

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/community-infrastructure-levy

Has some on phasing..

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/community-infrastructure-levy#para129

 

Reasons for rejecting the resubmission will have to be valid planning reasons or they will loose at appeal. I very much doubt a possible loss of CIL due to a perfectly legal exemption (eg two self builds) would be considered a valid planning reason. Expect them to look for valid reasons such as prolonged impact on traffic or noise on neighbours or other nonsense.

 

I would get a friend to check to see if they have met demand from the self build register. If not point out you will raise that at appeal as well.

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Temp

[Moonshine]

10 minutes ago, Temp said:

Has some on phasing..

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/community-infrastructure-levy#para129

 

Though, the key wording below;

 

Quote

Where the planning authority is willing to accept it, a planning permission for a development can be subdivided into ‘phases’ for the purposes of the levy (see ‘How does the levy relate to planning permission?’). This is expected to be especially useful for large scale development, which is an essential element of increasing housing supply.

 

From this, It appears that an authority doesn't have to accept it......

Edited November 20, 2020 by Moonshine

[Temp]

Ah.

 

In that case would two separate planning applications work? Perhaps with a year or two between?

[Moonshine]

18 hours ago, Faz said:

I would suggest you do 2 Form 2s - 1 for each Plot. Then a Form 7a for the Self Build only and a Form 6 for the Self Build when you start - can't see that that would trigger the liability. Even better if you could do each Form 2 in different names - a company or someone else.

 

This actually could be an option, or a variation of this, two Form 7a forms,

• one plot self build exception being mine for the plot we are going to build
• one plot self build exception being my wife's which we aren't going to build

My wife is not named on the planning application.

 

The key thing is that the form 7a says that for the exception you must occupy the premises as your sole or main residence for a period of 3 years from completion of the property. What if me and the wife don't want to live together! ?

 

If the house is not completed for a long period then no cil would be payable.

 

If we sold the plot in the future then we would transfer over the CIL liability (self build or not)

 

4 minutes ago, Temp said:

In that case would two separate planning applications work? Perhaps with a year or two between?

 

timescales don't really work for that

[Temp]

18 minutes ago, Moonshine said:

The key thing is that the form 7a says that for the exception you must occupy the premises as your sole or main residence for a period of 3 years from completion of the property. What if me and the wife don't want to live together! 

 

 

There was a case of a widow who's husband had sadly died during construction. Couldn't face living in "their" house which she had finished - but council pointed out she had to for three years. I don't remember if they relented on that.

[Carrerahill]

19 hours ago, Moonshine said:

 

Nope, i want CIL exception on the house I am going to build and live in.

I don't want to and very unlikely to build the second house myself.

But I don't want to pay the CIL on the house I am not building when i start the house for me. No one else is building now, and the cil is a £20k hole in my budget.

If someone comes along in future to build it and they aren't cil excempt then they will have to pay cil on it then.

 

 

Maybe an option, could you split the land then and repackage it as land with planning, then you are not responsible for CIL because you are not building it... I think brining both the planning permissions into one phase may have been the issue. Or re submit as two standalone planning applications?!?

[Temp]

The CIL isn't mentioned but..

https://www.self-build.co.uk/question/split-deeds-with-one-planning-permission-for-two-houses/

 

"Selling off one plot would simply be a matter of splitting the ownership and creating a new set of deeds for both plots. In this situation the planning permission as it stands has the potential to get complicated and it may be advantageous to seek two new and separate planning permissions."

 

Edit: I don't see how the planners can refuse if the application is for two houses identical to the ones already approved.  

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Temp