Dilwyn Taff Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Hi Guys, I live totally off grid and use a small portable gas fire for heating but living on my war disability pension this is getting very expensive with gas bottles getting so expensive. I was given an old multi fuel burner which obviously used to be part of a back boiler system? as per the pipes coming out the back of it? Anyway I've totally refurbished it and think it's ready to go. I/ve now heard that I cant use one of these multi fuel burners without water going through it as it is very dangerous. I just want to use this as it is now (see pics) for heating my place with wood/coal. I don't have a lot guys but what I do have I want to keep including my ability to breath lol I don't know what make or model this beast is but I know it's very very heavy. it does have a small outline of a fuel stove on it but no other identification. Any help would be greatly appreciated guys as it would be lovely to have proper heat this winter, there are 4 pipes coming out of the bag the top left one is capped? Haven't got a clue what the pipes were/are for but I think for water? Please excuse my ignorance but military veteran here and know nothing of this stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Welcome so you should never use a boiler stove with the boiler capped off as it could / will go off with a bang when the boiler ruptures... You can remove some boilers - guessing what those studs are for, I would say that could be removed but it would need replacing with a firebrick back so not exactly ideal. One other option if you never want to use the boiler again is remove all the pipes, and cap off the bottom two outlets and fill the boiler with kiln dried sand through the top ports. It will make it very heavy, and if it was ever reconnected the residual sand would probably destroy every pump and valve... Installing stoves is something that needs care, and should be undertaken by a competent person or notified to the council. Please have a read of this here... https://www.stovefitterswarehouse.co.uk/pages/beginners-guide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Welcome, yes it has a back boiler and firing this up without water is not a good idea. It may be possible to remove it or fill with very dry sand. edit, just cross posted with @PeterW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomusername Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) I read an article once about back boilers being left in place safely. Probably in ex council properties? Will see if I can find it. Here we are: https://www.hse.gov.uk/services/localgovernment/boilers.htm Edited November 9, 2020 by Randomusername Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilwyn Taff Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 12 hours ago, PeterW said: Welcome so you should never use a boiler stove with the boiler capped off as it could / will go off with a bang when the boiler ruptures... You can remove some boilers - guessing what those studs are for, I would say that could be removed but it would need replacing with a firebrick back so not exactly ideal. One other option if you never want to use the boiler again is remove all the pipes, and cap off the bottom two outlets and fill the boiler with kiln dried sand through the top ports. It will make it very heavy, and if it was ever reconnected the residual sand would probably destroy every pump and valve... Installing stoves is something that needs care, and should be undertaken by a competent person or notified to the council. Please have a read of this here... https://www.stovefitterswarehouse.co.uk/pages/beginners-guide Many thanks Pete, I'm hoping it can be removed (I wandered what the 2 long screw n nuts were for) as I will never use the boiler again, Please excuse my ignorance, i take it that it is dangerous due to heat then pressure could blow up the empty boiler? I thought that with those pipes not capped there would be no pressure as such due to those pipes pressure would be released, I was advised on another site to drills holes in the back boiler to release pressure but surely those redundant pipes would do that, again please excuse my ignorance, cheers Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 With the pipes open the boiler (which is usually a lot thinner metal) will not let the stove work to its full potential hence suggesting fill it full of sand. I wouldn’t be drilling holes in the boiler - if you do take it out then you need to block the holes in the back with some nuts and washers and also get another fire brick to fit. You can get these from eBay - just search for cut to size vermiculite bricks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) A slightly left field look at this, and in no way am I suggesting this can be done safely, but: As the boiler usually has water circulating around it, which limits the temperature (until it boils and can release hundreds of times the energy), would it not be possible to pump air though it instead. It may need a relatively high pressure pump to give a decent mass flow rate, which needs to be at least 4 times the usual water mass flow rate, and probably 12 to 15 times in reality as you don't need air coming out at 80°C. Then that warm air can be piped to where it is needed. This dose run a risk of filling the house with smoke, or worse, carbon monoxide, if the boiler jacket leaks. So I would not try it. Probably much better to get a Honda Generator and run an Air to Air heat pump from it. Edited November 10, 2020 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 what sort of property are you in, caravan, static ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dilwyn Taff Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 I live in a static and a few folks have mentioned that I should leave the fire as is. As long as the 4 pipes are not connected and not capped the air can escape so no build up of pressure inside the Boiler so no explosion, also mentioned that if I am worried about the boiler warping etc due to high heat to somehow fix fire bricks to the face of the redundant boiler. So i was thinking of drilling through the firebricks and then into the face of the redundant back boiler to hold the bricks in place? D'ya think this may work guys? Saves the hassle of taking the bloody thing out and capping off the holes etc and then fitting firebricks in the back of it. Thanks ever so much guys from your input so far, learning a lot here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I think dried sand is by far the best (cheapest/simplist) solution. Block the bottom holes and using a funnel carefully fill the tank to the top and leave the top pipes open (to relieve any pressure) this will then replicate a stove without a back boiler and installing fire bricks without the hassle ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Please don’t drill the boiler - you will allow fumes to escape out of the pipes at the back. As @joe90 said, dry sand, leave the caps off or just loose when it’s full and it will go for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Jones Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 out of interest where is the closest electric to you, overhead or road ? There are schemes to help getting connected if you qualify (pensioner/benefits etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randomusername Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 @Dilwyn Taff a further option is to sell this one to someone who wants a back boiler model - should get a reasonable price now it’s refurbed - and buy a decent second hand model that doesn’t have a back boiler installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberfruits Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 On 10/11/2020 at 13:44, joe90 said: I think dried sand is by far the best (cheapest/simplist) solution. Block the bottom holes and using a funnel carefully fill the tank to the top and leave the top pipes open (to relieve any pressure) this will then replicate a stove without a back boiler and installing fire bricks without the hassle ? Hi does anybody know how much sand one needs for a standard back boiler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Depends on the volume of the back boiler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberfruits Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 hours ago, joe90 said: Depends on the volume of the back boiler. Just thinking, with your experience, could you just approximately estimate on a standard/average volume open fire back boiler how many bags it would take? I am kind of useless with this kind of math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 You need to measure it and work out the volume or fill it with water and measure that to work out the volume. (Just buy a couple of bags it ain’t that expensive). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Originaltwist Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 If that's a Clearview stove (Vision 500?) then you can just unscrew the nuts on the exit pipes, remove the boiler and order the missing rear fire brick. Then Robert's your father's brother. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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