Agricultural to dwelling

[mjward]

This definitely falls into seeking guidance rather than a definitive answer as I suspect that can't be given unless you work for the planning dept but...

 

I know buying a field currently utilised for agriculture with a view to getting planning permission for a single dwelling has poor odds.

 

But I've found some land that is being spun off in sub plots. The one I like is less than an acre, half of it taken up by two large agricultural buildings and the rest just grass/agricultural waste mounds. Does the fact there is an existing structure there help at all or are agricultural buildings treated like a field when it comes to PP and an attempt to get a dwelling built?

 

Worth noting the plot directly attached and also up for sale includes a residential dwelling, ie on the same road frontage. 

[Dave Jones]

I expect there will be an uplift on it I expect that triggers should you get planning. 

 

Have a look at your local plan from the council to see if its in the area designated for building.

 

Farmers dont miss a trick!

[mjward]

18 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

I expect there will be an uplift on it I expect that triggers should you get planning. 

 

Have a look at your local plan from the council to see if its in the area designated for building.

 

Farmers dont miss a trick!

Yup I did spot the uplift although rather than the standard % it's a flat £25k which I think is fair.

[Temp]

Are the agricultural buildings suitable for conversion? More than 10 years old?  There are permitted development  rights that allow some agricultural  buildings to be converted to houses..

 

https://www.burges-salmon.com/news-and-insight/legal-updates/permitted-development-rights-change-of-use-of-agricultural-buildings-to-residential/

 

Even if you don't want to convert them, the fact that you could might help a planning application to replace with a new dwelling.

[recoveringbuilder]

Don’t know if the buildings would be classed the same as glass houses but that was where our second plot came from, it had 3x 100ft glasshouses on it and because it had been ‘developed’ before we got planning on it (it was originally part of a small farm)

you say there’s a dwelling on the adjacent plot so what is on the other side?

[mjward]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

Are the agricultural buildings suitable for conversion? More than 10 years old?  There are permitted development  rights that allow some agricultural  buildings to be converted to houses..

 

https://www.burges-salmon.com/news-and-insight/legal-updates/permitted-development-rights-change-of-use-of-agricultural-buildings-to-residential/

 

Even if you don't want to convert them, the fact that you could might help a planning application to replace with a new dwelling.

Unfortunately not, they are gigantic but... Just simple metal roof/sides for storage of hay ie would be 0 chance of conversion or convincing anyone that they could be "adjusted" to a dwelling

[mjward]

56 minutes ago, recoveringbuilder said:

Don’t know if the buildings would be classed the same as glass houses but that was where our second plot came from, it had 3x 100ft glasshouses on it and because it had been ‘developed’ before we got planning on it (it was originally part of a small farm)

you say there’s a dwelling on the adjacent plot so what is on the other side?

Best way to describe it is by looking at the 3 plots with the same road frontage:

 

Plot with dwelling & land (on the left)* plot with dwelling (in the middle) * plot with agricultural buildings (on the right and the one I'm interested in). Across the road is just fields with no structures. Behind is just fields with no structures. 100m up the road from the plot in question is a b&b and more residential dwellings.

 

I would be content to argue that the road itself lends itself to residential development but was just thinking if the fact there are existing structures (even agricultural), do they swing it from a 50/50 from a PP perspective

[recoveringbuilder]

Just wondering if it would qualify as a gap site, when we bought the land we built house 1 on (started out with an agricultural tie to the glasshouses but later had the tie removed) we had the house in the middle, glasshouses to the right and an acre field to the left. When we stopped running the business from the glasshouses we then got permission for another house on the site of the greenhouses which left us with the vacant field . We sold both houses and moved away leaving the field vacant but we then applied for permission for two houses in the field and because of our original house on the right of it and another unrelated property to the left albeit around 50m away the field had become a gap site and we secured planning on it without much bother at all. The architect we used went straight in with the gap site scenario and the local authority didn’t put up anything to the contrary.

[mjward]

It's a good point. I think this would have to be the angle I would go down although doesn't put it close enough from a comfort perspective in order for me to pull the trigger. Currently going through mounds of LA PP reports/data, the good news is that there aren't any planning permission rejections...but that's because there haven't been any applications in over 10 years (at least with regards to converting/building anything into a dwelling)

[recoveringbuilder]

Might be worth speaking to a local architect who deals regularly with the local planning department to see his/her thoughts, they usually give you a first appointment for free, this was what we did and he made preliminary enquiries with one of the planning officers who said it would be looked on favourably.

[mjward]

On 09/11/2020 at 19:50, recoveringbuilder said:

 

 

2 hours ago, recoveringbuilder said:

Might be worth speaking to a local architect who deals regularly with the local planning department to see his/her thoughts, they usually give you a first appointment for free, this was what we did and he made preliminary enquiries with one of the planning officers who said it would be looked on favourably.

 Excellent bit of advice. Thank you!

[john0wingnut]

On 09/11/2020 at 21:05, recoveringbuilder said:

Just wondering if it would qualify as a gap site, when we bought the land we built house 1 on (started out with an agricultural tie to the glasshouses but later had the tie removed) we had the house in the middle, glasshouses to the right and an acre field to the left. When we stopped running the business from the glasshouses we then got permission for another house on the site of the greenhouses which left us with the vacant field . We sold both houses and moved away leaving the field vacant but we then applied for permission for two houses in the field and because of our original house on the right of it and another unrelated property to the left albeit around 50m away the field had become a gap site and we secured planning on it without much bother at all. The architect we used went straight in with the gap site scenario and the local authority didn’t put up anything to the contrary.

Im intrigued by this.........

 

Whilst my position is not 100% the same, we have a field which is at the end of a shared driveway, which provides access on the west side of the field,  which has houses along that side - and then backs on to other houses on the south side, so in effect, "capping" off the area with houses, from the remaining agricultural land.

 

I've attached a rough site plan that Ive been playing with, as easier to visualise.

 

I wonder whether one could apply a similar principle to it?

 

 

SITE PLANv2.pdf

[ProDave]

Thanks for the plan.  It looks NOTHING like I had visualised from the description, I was expecting 3 rectanfular plots in a row fronting a long road.

 

I would think you stand a fair chance of getting PP there on the basis of "rounding off a development"

 

If it were me I would suggest to the vendor that you make an offer to buy it, subject to gaining PP and would of course pay his uplift as well, then subbit an outline planning applications.  This is exactly what I did when buying our plot.

[recoveringbuilder]

Yes I agree with @ProDave our current house was given permission (2nd application) when the head of the local planning office came out for a site visit and he decided it would be within the existing building group, so could be worth a try on that basis.