Buying land with planning?

[StanEth]

Hey guys,

 

I hope you're all well. I have given up for now trying to find a way to get planning permission on land I have so I have been scrolling through plots that are being sold with granted planning permission. My question is how easy would this be to change? I have read through some posts already made but I have a few specific questions I'm curious about. 

 

- I already have an idea of what a want, a small 100m2 (internal) bungalow but not traditional by all means, more of a long cabin cladded in timber. It would be open plan with 2 bed 2 bath on one side and open living/diner/kitchen on the other. Now most of the lots being sold are for properties with multiple floors, would changing this to a single floor property be problematic? in my head I can see planners saying no due to wasted space or something. 

 

- If the application accepted for the land is for a property with unusual styling and not traditional, am I more likely to be accepted to change it? 

 

I'm aware of being able to put in a offer subject to planning, i just don't want to be doing this on a whim as it costs both time and money. I'm trying to avoid finding a plot I love but with a building I hate with 0 chance of being able to change it. 

 

Thankyou!

[recoveringbuilder]

Can you not look then for plots with outline pp ? Might be an area specific thing but the plot we still have had only outline on it and because we have had a few enquires about it which have not materialised I decided the best plan might be to get detailed planning for it, my view was that if it was set in stone re position of house etc it would save all the to- ing  and fro-ing which has been going on with different people wanting different things however when I approached an architect and the agent marketing it they were both of the opinion I was wasting my time as whoever eventually bought it was sure to want something different!

[StanEth]

23 minutes ago, Christine Walker said:

Can you not look then for plots with outline pp ? Might be an area specific thing but the plot we still have had only outline on it and because we have had a few enquires about it which have not materialised I decided the best plan might be to get detailed planning for it, my view was that if it was set in stone re position of house etc it would save all the to- ing  and fro-ing which has been going on with different people wanting different things however when I approached an architect and the agent marketing it they were both of the opinion I was wasting my time as whoever eventually bought it was sure to want something different!

 

Hey mate thanks for responding, I understand outline planning refers to the scale of a property.. could this be used in the sense that anything up to that scale can be built, whether its a 100m2 single storey bungalow or a 100m2 2 storey house? 

[recoveringbuilder]

Outline planning means it has been agreed that the land can be used for a house/ houses , so in our case their has been consultations with roads department and sepa and all are happy with the proposal, the next step is much more in depth.

[nod]

You can also apply for planning in principle Costs about £500 no bead for formal drawings or dimensions

A square in the middle of your plot roughly where the house is going 

Access marked out 

This will establish viability of building on your plot 

 

[Roundtuit]

I think it depends very much on the planning authority.  Generally, they'll want to see a design that fits with the local area.  Infilling with a log cabin design in a row of 2-story brick houses, for example, is unlikely to be acceptable I'd suggest.  You may also be at risk of under-developing the plot, as the plot will be priced for a bigger property - not a problem if you've got the cash and want to live there long term, but might disadvantage you financially if you want to sell, or need a mortgage to build.

 

If you find something you like, try and have an informal chat with the planners to test the water.  There will be no guarantees, but it should rule out the complete non-starters.

[StanEth]

15 hours ago, nod said:

You can also apply for planning in principle Costs about £500 no bead for formal drawings or dimensions

A square in the middle of your plot roughly where the house is going 

Access marked out 

This will establish viability of building on your plot 

 

 

 

Thanks for the response, I never knew that! Will keep that in mind if I find a plot a really like, this is different to outline planning I guess? 

[StanEth]

2 hours ago, Roundtuit said:

I think it depends very much on the planning authority.  Generally, they'll want to see a design that fits with the local area.  Infilling with a log cabin design in a row of 2-story brick houses, for example, is unlikely to be acceptable I'd suggest.  You may also be at risk of under-developing the plot, as the plot will be priced for a bigger property - not a problem if you've got the cash and want to live there long term, but might disadvantage you financially if you want to sell, or need a mortgage to build.

 

If you find something you like, try and have an informal chat with the planners to test the water.  There will be no guarantees, but it should rule out the complete non-starters.

 

This was my thought exactly mate, some councils seem so lenient compared to others. This is why i mentioned land that has had plans accepted for unusual builds, surely this shows leniency? The build I want is definitely not fitting with traditional architecture in this country but its very basic and simple. The 2nd point you made I have certainly thought about, the reason for the design and 2 bedroom specification is lack of cash and not needing the extra space. I am South East looking for links to London so I'm looking at plots for £150k and then would be looking for spend £150k on the build itself. Unless I fall out of love with the property I expect to be there many years and I want a plot that will allow me to do an extension to create another 2 bedrooms/bathroom. I have already had to ignore numerous lovely plots as they are close to listed buildings and traditional materials would be necessary.

[StanEth]

17 hours ago, Christine Walker said:

Outline planning means it has been agreed that the land can be used for a house/ houses , so in our case their has been consultations with roads department and sepa and all are happy with the proposal, the next step is much more in depth.

 

How in depth is it? so they want to know material specifications and the outline shape for example? or simply what you'd like to build ie 2 storey house and 2 car garage. 

[StanEth]

Sorry for the posts constantly after eachother guys! Just one last point, I am looking for rural land around quarter/third of an acre.

[recoveringbuilder]

29 minutes ago, StanEth said:

 

How in depth is it? so they want to know material specifications and the outline shape for example? or simply what you'd like to build ie 2 storey house and 2 car garage. 

No they just want an application with location plan , indicative position of house and how it would be accessed, we had to have a traffic survey done as someone tried to put a spanner in the works saying it would be an unacceptable access but this was a personal grudge, we also had to get the ok from sepa as the same person tried to say our last two houses were spewing out effluent into his property which made sepa do tests and he was proved to be a liar but in normal circumstances this would not have happened and all drainage would have been dealt with in the detailed application.

[scottishjohn]

I would suggest you invest £2-300 in a topographical survey -don,t rely on the one they have done for thier planning 

 

before i have what i have now i looked at a plot for 2 houses 

planning passed  ETC  WITH PLANS 

I did my own topo survey and found they were way off  

anyway -some one has now bought it

and have spent 4 weeks  pecking rock out to get the plot down to heights  on plan  and it still is not there    rotten rock 2 ft under soil --so how they ever did the percolation tests for the septic system- or going to fit drains etc

So i am guessing  another plan will be drawn up soon

the answer is they did not --and knew it would only come to light once anyone started building

so beware of other peoples plans 

[Ferdinand]

3 hours ago, StanEth said:

 

How in depth is it? so they want to know material specifications and the outline shape for example? or simply what you'd like to build ie 2 storey house and 2 car garage. 

 

Technically it is called "with matters reserved" (ie reserved to be talked about at the later stage), and the applicant can reserve what they want.

 

It is quite common eg to leave everything reserved except for the number of dwellings and the entrance, layout as these are the details which if they weren't there would devalue the plot. In a self-build context that might be eg "200sqm 4 bedroom house" and entrance plan.  As that is the stuff the vendor needs to maximise their benefit.

 

In my case we did a full suite of everything - including proposing planning gain contributions exactly in line with Council policy, as the driver was getting it through before they wrote it out of their emerging local plan and poleaxed it for 15 years.

 

Ferdinand

Edited September 20, 2020 by Ferdinand

[StanEth]

23 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Technically it is called "with matters reserved" (ie reserved to be talked about at the later stage), and the applicant can reserve what they want.

 

It is quite common eg to leave everything reserved except for the number of dwellings and the entrance, layout as these are the details which if they weren't there would devalue the plot. In a self-build context that might be eg "200sqm 4 bedroom house" and entrance plan.  As that is the stuff the vendor needs to maximise their benefit.

 

In my case we did a full suite of everything - including proposing planning gain contributions exactly in line with Council policy, as the driver was getting it through before they wrote it out of their emerging local plan and poleaxed it for 15 years.

 

Ferdinand

 

Oh interesting thankyou, so you're basically being told yes you can build a house here but we need to discuss it - there is then a good chance they will disagree with material choice/building layout when it comes to actual design? The design of the building id want is as simple as anything but I can definitely see planners wanting it out of brick and not being happy with the interior layout thus rejecting it.

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, StanEth said:

 

Oh interesting thankyou, so you're basically being told yes you can build a house here but we need to discuss it - there is then a good chance they will disagree with material choice/building layout when it comes to actual design? The design of the building id want is as simple as anything but I can definitely see planners wanting it out of brick and not being happy with the interior layout thus rejecting it.

 

Pretty much, yes.

 

Though interior layout is not usually a relevant planning matter; only for the possible impact on the amenity of other residents. So if you have a picture window where you can see next door's bedroom they may demand frosted glass.

 

Building Control may have views though.

 

I think others have described how little material you can actually often submit.

Edited September 20, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Pm1987]

Our plot had a planning permission for a massive house. Curved turfed roofs, cinema room, gym etc. There was no way I could have afforded to build it. Instead I wanted to build a traditional white cottage as per the surrounding house but was told "if you want one of those you can buy one". Took a bit of time but did eventually get a "simpler" design through.

[Ferdinand]

35 minutes ago, Pm1987 said:

Our plot had a planning permission for a massive house. Curved turfed roofs, cinema room, gym etc. There was no way I could have afforded to build it. Instead I wanted to build a traditional white cottage as per the surrounding house but was told "if you want one of those you can buy one". Took a bit of time but did eventually get a "simpler" design through.

 

I don’t that comes under “look, a squirrel”, and is not a pertinent planning  matter. ?

[recoveringbuilder]

Not all self builds will be worth more than they have cost you to build, depends how carried away you get with the finishings and how long you stay there, we stayed in our first one for 14years and ended up selling for 6 times what it had cost but 14 years was a long time. Having said all that there are some very cheap plots near us that you just wouldn’t entertain because they are in deprived areas where it would be hard to resell and at the end of the day it would cost you the same to build x house in a good area or a bad so always have one eye on the resell value.

[StanEth]

On 04/10/2020 at 18:13, Christine Walker said:

Not all self builds will be worth more than they have cost you to build, depends how carried away you get with the finishings and how long you stay there, we stayed in our first one for 14years and ended up selling for 6 times what it had cost but 14 years was a long time. Having said all that there are some very cheap plots near us that you just wouldn’t entertain because they are in deprived areas where it would be hard to resell and at the end of the day it would cost you the same to build x house in a good area or a bad so always have one eye on the resell value.

 

You're very right, my only reservation about building a single storey bungalow is exactly that. I am looking for a plot close to me now as its an hour to London so if I end up working there I won't have to look at changing locations. Also although im only looking to build a 2 bedroom I'd like a plot big enough to build an extension for another 2 bedrooms/bathrooms if needs be in the future, so I expect to live there for a decent amount of time which should prevent any large loss of money. It definitely won't