How Long Should Structural Calcs Take

[SteveMack]

The recommended structural engineer by architect came round to look at our extension drawings and loadings etc (Goal post taking out corner of house using ~3.6M beam for bifolds to go in and a 6.5M meter beam joining the 3.6M beam midway like a T taking out the adjacent gable wall)

 

That was the 19th May; 3 times I've chased him now but he says he's really busy as he's working on his own at moment, today was the 3rd promise date I've had that's come and gone; I've not paid so nothing lost other than my time waiting.  Is everyone busy at the moment or do I cancel him?  How can it take so long; I'm baffled!

[Vijay]

one of the worst experiences I've had is with S.E's, took nearly 2 years to get correct details, so many mistakes I was picking up on, it became an absolute joke

[SteveMack]

8 minutes ago, Vijay said:

one of the worst experiences I've had is with S.E's, took nearly 2 years to get correct details, so many mistakes I was picking up on, it became an absolute joke

 Ouch that doesn't sound good

 

Such a shame; we came to compromises we were happy on so he could keep beam depths from getting silly but feel a bit lost now and it's ruining our plans; our first choice builder is booked up to June next year already and we want him from August/September onwards but he won't give us a proper price breakdown until he gets the structural detail and building regs drawings etc

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by SteveMack

[Gus Potter]

Hi Steve.

It’s a shame to see your and other posts on this and I understand the frustration. Vijay mentions two years. All other things being equal and without knowing the background you could conclude that this is unacceptable, but it could be a simple communication issue?

Turning back to Steve. You mention that it’s not panning out how you would hope, disappointing.

Dealing with the builder first. It’s reasonable that they are not committing to a price as the devil is in the detail.

However, the spans you describe and the fact that you are taking a chunk out the corner of the building introduces a lot of complexity into the design. You’ll read lots of stuff about beam sizes and depths. A beam on its own is often simple to design. You’ll see prices banded about for beam design at £100.00! But that is only the beam in isolation. Yes, you may be able to buy a heart valve off the internet for that but it’s the  connections / the opening up/ propping and insertion not least that require skill and knowledge.

 When you take chunks out of a building you start to lose the parts that stop the building also moving sideways when say the wind blows.

The biggest challenge is how you tie / connect the steelwork into the existing structure so that it does it's job of both holding something up and stopping the building moving sideways.

You need to produce a lot of good details (not generic copy and pasted details) that work. Every house is different. This can take a lot of calculation and drawing effort to communicate this information to the builder who is pricing.

Steve. Can I suggest you contact your Engineer again and ask what they think is required and what level of detail they expect to provide.. You mention May, I assume it is this year? Many Engineers like so many other people have been impacted by the current COVID situation so good communication is the key in my view.

Ask again and hopefully you will start to move forwards. All the best.

[Vijay]

7 minutes ago, Gus Potter said:

Hi Steve.

It’s a shame to see your and other posts on this and I understand the frustration. Vijay mentions two years. All other things being equal and without knowing the background you could conclude that this is unacceptable, but it could be a simple communication issue?

 

 

 

You're absolutely right, the communication issue was they never got back to me until I kicked up a stink and then rushed everything to make a feeble attempt to get the job done lol

[the_r_sole]

Is the engineer a one-man-show type?

I deal with a mix of engineers and the guys working on their own can be super fast or really slow, they seem to operate in feast or famine without really programming work too well (only speaking from experience) so it might just be you've caught the guy when he's snowed under and should have said to you that he would take a while to come back on it - there's a lot of projects that have suddenly taken off in the last few weeks too!

I would give him a call, and say you understand that he's busy and you're just looking for a realistic turnaround time on it, it might be the situation where being nice will get you sorted quicker!

[Mr Punter]

If you have not paid him, ask him when the information will be ready.  If his estimate does not suit you, find another engineer.  They do not need to be from your locality or ever see the site, so elsewhere in UK they may have SEs twiddling their thumbs.

[Gus Potter]

2 hours ago, the_r_sole said:

Is the engineer a one-man-show type?

I deal with a mix of engineers and the guys working on their own can be super fast or really slow, they seem to operate in feast or famine without really programming work too well (only speaking from experience) so it might just be you've caught the guy when he's snowed under and should have said to you that he would take a while to come back on it - there's a lot of projects that have suddenly taken off in the last few weeks too!

I would give him a call, and say you understand that he's busy and you're just looking for a realistic turnaround time on it, it might be the situation where being nice will get you sorted quicker!

Good advice from the sole in my view.

[ToughButterCup]

C-19 is a gift to procrastinators. Talk.

[SteveMack]

It's not a 'one man band' as such, I think there's 3 of them in the office from what he said.  They don't advertise as they get all their work from referrals etc which I found great/positive.

 

I did a structural engineering module years ago as part of my degree so I know the complexity involved; I definately have respect for what they are doing/creating and this definately isn't a simple one.  After 2 initial/vague times limits passed, I wasn't overly bothered but our last chat he said; he won't be offended if I went elsewhere, I replied with, I'm happy staying with you but please give me a firm and realistic plan when I'll get something back; he replied with 1-2 weeks max and we're now passing the 2 week mark...  This is the bit that's really annoyed me.

 

It's not cheap either, around £1200 for site visit/loading paths/beams and foundation requirements etc.

 

He's not used C19 as an excuse for himself as such; it seemed to relate more to his colleagues all being at home and the 'team' wasn't together; he's been actively working through C19 doing drawings etc still whilst self distanced.

 

Also yes, May this year he came

[Temp]

Clearly its not the actual calculations that are taking the time, he's just very busy with higher priority jobs.  I'd start making enquiries elsewhere.

[SteveMack]

Got somewhere finally; cancelled him as he missed his last set deadline and wouldn't give me a date he would actually finish them.  Baffled me personally.

 

Now have a new company working to a 4 week turn around time who fully understand what is wanted and needed from the job; £300 more but at least I can retain my sanity.

[SteveMack]

Finally, have a structural design now.  2 Queries though, who designs the steel connections for a portal frame (both moment and none moment connections)?  Structural engineer have said the steel fabricator/architect will do them?  Also the method statement for construction his drawings say the contractor must ensure building stability etc, I was under the impression structual engineers produce the method of the structual work?

Edited September 23, 2020 by SteveMack

[Mr Punter]

In my limited experience the SE does the connection details.  The fabricator produces fabrication drawings with more detail and you can get them OKed by the SE.  Never seen an architect showing anything other than suggested steel locations.