SteamyTea Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, joth said: I'll say it once more: put any spare £ you want for hugs from planet earth into insulation. That is quite an interesting idea. Has anyone worked out the price difference between installing ordinary plasterboard and that aerogel backed plasterboard. Then compared that to say fitting a heat pump over a storage heater. I still think that one 10 kW inline water heater for all the hot taps and modern storage heaters is the cheapest option and the most environmentally benign. Does anyone have the proposed CO2 figured for grid supplied electricity that SAP is changing to? The 2018 SAP document Table 12 says 0.233 kg CO2/kWh with a primary energy factor correction of 1.738. Gas is 0.210 kg CO2/kWh with a primary energy factor of 1.122. So 0.405 and 0.236 respectively. But I am not sure if they are the latest numbers. Edited June 25, 2020 by SteamyTea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHD Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Having insulated my house reasonably well with aerogel, I think that instantaneous space heat demand is no more than about 3kW under normal circs. So I could replace the combi for the rad circuit with a Willis heater, thus the question in another thread. By the time you look at the gas standing charge, capex for new emitters of any sort, grid declining intensity, etc, and the fact that this house will probably be pulled down in five years, 'instant' heating beats storage from a money ("total cost of ownership") and carbon pov, I suspect. Rgds Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 3 hours ago, joth said: I'll say it once more: put any spare £ you want for hugs from planet earth into insulation. That stuff is hard to retrofit, especially underfloor. This will reduce heating (and cooling) requirements at zero incremental cost over time. As it stands, with gas heating, the heating cost for the 1 bed flat will be about £100 per year. Water heating is about £80. There is a limit to what can be sensibly improved by adding insulation. I could put some heat recovery ventilation but it would need to be small and idiot proof to run. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHD Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Single-room MHRV such as I have in two rooms? Rgds Damon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, DamonHD said: Single-room MHRV such as I have in two rooms? Rgds Damon Thanks Damon. That may work well. Do they count in SAP? Do you have a suggested make? What rooms do they go in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHD Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Can't speak for SAP. Both mine are Vent-Axia, one in the bathroom (HR25 with humdistat) and Lo-Carbon Tempra in kitchen: http://www.earth.org.uk/MHRV-Vent-Axia-Lo-Carbon-Tempra-P-REVIEW.html It's quite common I think to put them in the wetter/smellier rooms. Rgds Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr Punter said: Do they count in SAP? I think they do. Do a text search on that SAP document I linked to earlier. With a small flat, I would have thought that ventilation was more important. I have a small house (smaller than some of your flats), if I lived up country, I would have fitted MVHR by now, as it is, I can get away with open windows for the majority of the year, though this does chuck out the heat I put in during the previous night. Worth remembering that when a storage heater is charging up, it shuts down most the the heating. Why they can be good working with PV, even in winter as you may only need a kWh or two a day to keep the chill of a place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Aside from the hassle, you'l need to have 3x Landlord's Safety Certs every year. I pay £100 with a service for one very old gas boiler. Combi gas boilers only live for 10-12 years, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 My first flat was a new build one bedroom flat all electric that was 25 years ago storage in hall storage in lounge with convector panel heaters everywhere else electric shower. E7 supply no hassle. now insulate to the max. storage in hall storage in lounge with convector panel heaters everywhere else electric shower. so the only change would be to insulate to a higher standard to reduce heat loss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, TonyT said: so the only change would be to insulate to a higher standard to reduce heat loss. And control ventilation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 I am afraid I will need to have gas to get the SAP to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 I was only talking about heating as per the OP request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 spend money on good products, installed properly and you will reduce your maintenance costs, keep all 3 flats the same to standardise spares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 1 minute ago, TonyT said: spend money on good products, installed properly and you will reduce your maintenance costs, keep all 3 flats the same to standardise spares. Sadly it will be gas combi boilers x 3 I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamonHD Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 When does SAP 10.1 land for these purposes? Should make quite a difference. Yes, I know that I should know! Rgds Damon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joth Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 8 hours ago, Mr Punter said: Sadly it will be gas combi boilers x 3 I think. Honestly don't be sad. Insulate well, control heat losses through ventilation. Reduce heat demand and it becomes much less critical what the source is. For a rental flat using something with minimum capital outlay and easy for any random tenant to understand and operate is of great value. Heating technology is always advancing and much easier to change a boiler at some point in future than improve critical errors in the design/build of the fabric 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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