New Drive Unclassified Road

[Coops]

Evening self builders 

 

Have just bought an old farmhouse that forms part of a small ex farm complex with 3 converted barns set around a courtyard setting. The house has its own drive at the front, but I would really like to add another entrance at the back of the property, the land has an unclassified road around the boundary...my question is, do I just crack on and put in a gate and road or do I need to inform anyone?

 

Cheers 

[Simplysimon]

so you want to change the surface of your drive from, say 3x2 slabs to monoblock, who are you going to inform?

[Coops]

I want to create a completely new drive over my land and break out onto an unclassified road. The road will be a simple scalpings/mot type affair.

[Temp]

Some info here..

https://www.thwlegal.co.uk/about-us/news/public-highways-and-access

 

Looks like PP isn't required but you probably need Highway Authority approval.

[scottishjohn]

before you do that --

does it have a road number  "u" something 

if not then I

doubt it will be any problem ,but if a numbered one then lines of sight and drainage etc will need to be to spec 

[Randomiser]

On 29/05/2020 at 07:54, scottishjohn said:

before you do that --

does it have a road number  "u" something 

if not then I

doubt it will be any problem ,but if a numbered one then lines of sight and drainage etc will need to be to spec 

How would you definitively establish if a road is numbered or not?  Is there a definitive mapping of numbered roads?

[Randomiser]

38 minutes ago, Randomiser said:

How would you definitively establish if a road is numbered or not?  Is there a definitive mapping of numbered roads?

To answer my own question, my county council has a helpful map where you can check a road's status.  It categorises roads as:

A Roads

B Roads

C Roads

Unclassified (even the unclassified ones appear to have a number with a U prefix).

 

Looking at the link above it seems a new access onto an unclassified road where you do not need to cross a pavement requires neither planning permission nor highways consent.  Even if you are crossing a grass verge owned by the highways authority it seems you do not need their consent to cross it.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Randomiser

[Ferdinand]

I think the only other issue is whether anyone owns the verge - when you will need permission to go across it. Though it is unlikely that anyone owns it, or would notice if they did - short of a neighbour getting the hump.

 

I wish I'd picked this up sooner, as I could have semi confirmed your finding.

 

I had an embarrassed council chap tell me that he couldn't stop me opening up the front of a house in town as a driveway because the road was unclassified for a length of approx 4 houses. But he could make me put a proper pavement crossing in.

 

Presumably the defiinitive map is the same one for public footpaths, bridleways etc. If it is online you are furtunate as not all are.

 

(This is in England, but the system is ancient so I would expect them all to be approx. the same.)

 

F

Edited May 30, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Coops]

7 minutes ago, Randomiser said:

To answer my own question, my county council has a helpful map where you can check a road's status.  It categorises roads as:

A Roads

B Roads

C Roads

Unclassified (even the unclassified ones appear to have a number with a U prefix).

 

Looking at the link above it seems a new access onto an unclassified road where you do not need to cross a pavement requires neither planning permission nor highways consent.  Even if you are crossing a grass verge owned by the highways authority it seems you do not need their consent to cross it.

Thanks Randomiser, that sort of validates what research I had done, I'll check if Shropshire council have some way of difinitively checking the road classification, TBH I'd be amazed if it's classified as it's so narrow, but it has just been resurfaced.

[Ferdinand]

5 minutes ago, Coops said:

Thanks Randomiser, that sort of validates what research I had done, I'll check if Shropshire council have some way of difinitively checking the road classification, TBH I'd be amazed if it's classified as it's so narrow, but it has just been resurfaced.

 

Shropshire have an online "working" copy, which seems to be very up to date - Feb this year.

 

https://www.shropshire.gov.uk/outdoor-partnerships/countryside-access-and-public-rights-of-way/the-definitive-map/

 

It says Public Rights of Way, so it should cover roads. There's even a phone number.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Coops]

3 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

I think the only other issue is whether anyone owns the verge - when you will need permission to go across it. Though it is unlikely that anyone owns it, or would notice if they did - short of a neighbour getting the hump.

 

I wish I'd picked this up sooner, as I could have semi confirmed your finding.

 

I had an embarrassed council chap tell me that he couldn't stop me opening up the front of a house in town as a driveway because the road was unclassified for a length of approx 4 houses. But he could make me put a proper pavement crossing in.

 

Presumably the defiinitive map is the same one for public footpaths, bridleways etc. If it is online you are furtunate as not all are.

 

(This is in England, but the system is ancient so I would expect them all to be approx. the same.)

 

F

Interesting, I have no pavement and I own the hedge and any grassy bit verging the tarmac, I would act sensibly and design in a decent visibility splay anyway.

[Randomiser]

37 minutes ago, Coops said:

Thanks Randomiser, that sort of validates what research I had done, I'll check if Shropshire council have some way of difinitively checking the road classification, TBH I'd be amazed if it's classified as it's so narrow, but it has just been resurfaced.

From what I understand adopted (maintained) is not the same as classified.  According to a Govt. website I looked at abour 60% of roads in England are adopted but unclassified.

[Coops]

Yeah that's my understanding of the situation too. I suppose in reality it would be impossible for planning authorities and highways to actually manage the volume of applications which is why you see some rather dodgy field openings in rural areas 

[scottishjohn]

10 hours ago, Randomiser said:

Looking at the link above it seems a new access onto an unclassified road where you do not need to cross a pavement requires neither planning permission nor highways consent.  Even if you are crossing a grass verge owned by the highways authority it seems you do not need their consent to cross it.

not so in scotland 

that is the first problem with getting planning for my site 

saying my access road is a disued track that joins onto a "u" road and want all  the  thingsthat you would if joining to any other roadwith a new plot 

even to needing 5m of tarmac back up my road at the join and drainage to make sure no water comes from my road onto thier road. and I need to get a warrant too pen up the joining of the road

best of it is If i go to 1800 map it shows my "track " as the only road there and an intergral part of the u road ,which was why i was trying to find the old road number for it

 I would suggest you ask them a question .

[Randomiser]

13 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

not so in scotland 

that is the first problem with getting planning for my site 

saying my access road is a disued track that joins onto a "u" road and want all  the  thingsthat you would if joining to any other roadwith a new plot 

even to needing 5m of tarmac back up my road at the join and drainage to make sure no water comes from my road onto thier road. and I need to get a warrant too pen up the joining of the road

best of it is If i go to 1800 map it shows my "track " as the only road there and an intergral part of the u road ,which was why i was trying to find the old road number for it

 I would suggest you ask them a question .

But the OP is in Shropshire, last I looked that was not in Scotland ?

[scottishjohn]

don,t say you were not warned to check your info first