Office to Dwelling - Permitted Development Advice

[SamTheMan]

Hi guys, 

 

This is my first post and would appreciate some advice if anyone can help.

 

My parents own an office building which they have been trying to sell but I have always had other plans for it and suggested making it in to flats as its such a large space. They had a buyer which has recently fell through and now they are finally considering converting it into flats. The positive from the situation is that the person who tried to buy the property had gained prior approval for Class O Permitted Development however, the plans he had were not what I had in mind and he wanted to make a HMO.

 

So now we need to put another prior approval request in with new plans that match what we want. I have tried contacting the planning office numerous times but no response, i'm assuming due to Covid. I wanted to get a bit more info about what we can have under the Class O PD but don't want to pay for pre-planning advice if can be avoided due to cost and the time the council will take to reply. I have also looked at the legislation which is very vague and can't find anything on the internet.

 

My question is, with Class O PD, can you keep part of the building as an office space and convert the rest in to flats without getting full planning permission? I have attached an original plan of the building and drawn on the other to show the flats and the office as I would like them.

 

I believe you can have as many self contained flats as you want at any size under this PD but i'm just not sure about keeping part of the building as the same use class as the original.

 

I hope someone has had some experience with this and can please help!

 

Thanks
Sam

Office Original Plan.pdf Office Original Plan 2.pdf

[Ferdinand]

I would think you should be able to do a mixed development, but I do not know this in detail.

 

I think the environment after Rona will be different such that the sweet spots in type of development may change, which brings both risk and opportunity.

 

My suggestion would be - in addition to continuing to listen here - to also frequent a couple of more development oriented forums,  such as propertytribes.com (lots of relevant content, and good ethics). There are a lot of sharks out there.

 

If you are intending to do this yourself, then I would suggest a period of learning and being mentored by a HOG - hoary old git  - if you do not have relevant and significant experience, as there are market, legal and taxation issues that will affect everything.

 

Ferdinand

 

[SamTheMan]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

I would think you should be able to do a mixed development, but I do not know this in detail.

 

I think the environment after Rona will be different such that the sweet spots in type of development may change, which brings both risk and opportunity.

 

My suggestion would be - in addition to continuing to listen here - to also frequent a couple of more development oriented forums,  such as propertytribes.com (lots of relevant content, and good ethics). There are a lot of sharks out there.

 

If you are intending to do this yourself, then I would suggest a period of learning and being mentored by a HOG - hoary old git  - if you do not have relevant and significant experience, as there are market, legal and taxation issues that will affect everything.

 

Ferdinand

 

Cheers Ferdinand, thats a great help. 

 

I will have a look on the other forums and post on there. 

 

Yes I am worried about changes after Covid, thats why I would like to get the Prior Approval ASAP and not have to wait for pre planning advice. 

 

Thats a good idea, i currently have another BTL property and understand tax rules, i have a few good contacts, my dad and brother builders, my good friend is a tax advisor. Its just the planning and legal issues that i need help with. 

 

Thanks for the response again, i will get on to the other forums and see what people have to say. 

 

Sam

[ToughButterCup]

6 hours ago, SamTheMan said:

...

I wanted to get a bit more info about what we can have under the Class O PD but don't want to pay for pre-planning advice if can be avoided

...

Office Original Plan.pdf 229.15 kB · 4 downloads Office Original Plan 2.pdf 475.79 kB · 5 downloads

Then google Martin Goodhall. He's yer man

[SamTheMan]

52 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Then google Martin Goodhall. He's yer man

Thanks, will have a look.

[Mr Punter]

Yes, you can just convert part of the offices.  I have seen a scheme like this completed.

[SamTheMan]

7 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

Yes, you can just convert part of the offices.  I have seen a scheme like this completed.

Cheers Mr Punter, and that was under PD as far as you're aware?

[Mr Punter]

7 minutes ago, SamTheMan said:

Cheers Mr Punter, and that was under PD as far as you're aware?

 

Yes.  See https://planningregister.crawley.gov.uk/Planning/Display/CR/2018/0865/PA3

 

They just did the second floor.  It is on the market https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-67028349.html

 

Quite odd that they made the flats fairly large.  I think they were influenced by the LA planning guidance, but they could have ignored it and had some smaller bedsits.

[SamTheMan]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

 

Yes.  See https://planningregister.crawley.gov.uk/Planning/Display/CR/2018/0865/PA3

 

They just did the second floor.  It is on the market https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-67028349.html

 

Quite odd that they made the flats fairly large.  I think they were influenced by the LA planning guidance, but they could have ignored it and had some smaller bedsits.

Thanks. Yes they are large flats.

I was debating between 4 HMO's or 2 seperate flats but I think the 2 flats are more viable and will make better income.

[Jilly]

My recent experience with  pre planning was that I was shoved to the bottom of the pile and forgotten, as actual application took precedence

 

[SamTheMan]

On 20/04/2020 at 11:15, Jilly said:

My recent experience with  pre planning was that I was shoved to the bottom of the pile and forgotten, as actual application took precedence

 

That was another concern, I've decided against pre-planning advice. I will most likely use a planning consultant if I can't get enough advice from forums.

[DevilDamo]

On 19/04/2020 at 09:49, SamTheMan said:

The positive from the situation is that the person who tried to buy the property had gained prior approval for Class O Permitted Development however, the plans he had were not what I had in mind and he wanted to make a HMO.

A change of use from B1 to C4 isn’t covered via Permitted Development/Prior Approval. Under Class O, did he therefore seek PA for a change of use from B1 to C3 but was always going to use the building as an HMO?

Edited April 25, 2020 by DevilDamo

[SamTheMan]

On 25/04/2020 at 10:36, DevilDamo said:

A change of use from B1 to C4 isn’t covered via Permitted Development/Prior Approval. Under Class O, did he therefore seek PA for a change of use from B1 to C3 but was always going to use the building as an HMO?

Ahh it must be, I have just had another look at the drawings he proposed and nothing specifies that it is a HMO. I think he had just mentioned verbally that he was going to add extra bedrooms after planning had been accepted and make HMO.

 

 

HMO Office Drawingf.pdf

[DevilDamo]

Those plans are somewhat "interesting" and upon first impressions, do appear to present an interim/temporary measure. The Kitchen/Dining area is huge!!! It'd be interesting to see what Building Control think of not having a W.C. on the ground floor. Both Bedroom's on the first floor have En-suite's, which is fine but my preference would be to have a family/shared Bathroom. It does look like you could get quite a bit more from that development, unless Planning restrictions dictated otherwise.

 

But anyway and back to your original question, I can't see why you could not obtain Prior Approval for converting part of the building to residential while retaining some office space.

[SamTheMan]

2 minutes ago, DevilDamo said:

Those plans are somewhat "interesting" and upon first impressions, do appear to present an interim/temporary measure. The Kitchen/Dining area is huge!!! It'd be interesting to see what Building Control think of not having a W.C. on the ground floor. Both Bedroom's on the first floor have En-suite's, which is fine but my preference would be to have a family/shared Bathroom. It does look like you could get quite a bit more from that development, unless Planning restrictions dictated otherwise.

 

But anyway and back to your original question, I can't see why you could not obtain Prior Approval for converting part of the building to residential while retaining some office space.

Yes they are interesting Damo, like I said, he did say he was going to convert in to HMO's. Another potential buyer has also put previous planning in for a 5 room HMO but was declined due to room sizes being too small. 

 

My aim is for 2 separate flats and retain some office space. I think due to the size of the space, they will likely have to be studio flats but I am trying to sort some drawings to weigh up the space.